[00:00:00] Speaker A: Well, hey there, fraud fighters. It's your friendly neighborhood voiceover guy. And welcome back to behind the Scams, the only podcast where lipstick might cost you a small fortune. And I'm not talking Chanel. Today's story is one for the multi level marketing history books. We're diving into the pink and sparkly world of Mary Kay, where the makeup is heavy and the financial burden is even heavier. You'll hear from Nick and Sue as they unpack the jaw dropping true story of Monique, a military vet who traded her combat boots for contour brushes and walked straight into a $75,000 debt trap. So grab a snack, but maybe skip the pizza at the Pink Caddyshack and buckle up because this one is blush colored and brutal.
Here we go.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Thank you, Miles. And welcome back, everyone, to another episode of behind the Scams. My name is sue, your host for today's epis, and I am so, so excited to have you all here. We're diving headfirst into another, well, let's just say a complicated story. Today.
I will be joined, as always, by my co host and my husband, Nick. How are you doing today, sweetie?
[00:01:16] Speaker C: Thank you, Sue. You know I'm doing great. Looks like we got another fantastic episode on deck for our listeners.
I am ready to roll and super excited to uncover what's behind today's scam.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: I know, me too. So, Nick, what's the scam story on deck for this time? You've been hinting at it all week. In fact, you heard about this story from a FBI agent you know in Brooklyn, right?
[00:01:42] Speaker C: Yes, that's right. I knew this guy during my career in federal law enforcement. He was a great agent named Dash. He's long retired now, but I still hear from him. We nicknamed him Dash because he could run super fast. There was never a crook who could outrun him, so he is forever known as Dash. Anyways, interesting enough, Dash read about this story in an article he found in New York's the Cut. He thought it would make a great podcast episode.
I think he's right.
So buckle up everyone, because today we will be talking about how one woman named Monique lost $75,000 to a multiple level marketing gig commonly referred to as MLM. Yeah, you heard that, right.
75,000.
[00:02:33] Speaker B: That's right. Nick, you've told a lot of war stories from your law enforcement days, and Dash seemed to be in a lot of them, but oh my gosh, $75,000? How does something like that even happen?
I mean, I've heard about MLMs, but 75 grand. That's, that's a lot of money.
[00:02:52] Speaker C: It is.
It really, really is. And that's the thing, right? It creeps up on you. These things never look like it's possible until it happens and you're in the thick of it. Today's episode is really all about how these businesses, you know, suck people in and, and sue, in this case, it's all about the broken promises.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: Nick, you and I both read the article and loved it. So before we begin the deep dive into the story, let's tell our listeners where they can find the article. The information for this episode primarily came from Bridget Reed's article, How One woman lost 75,000 to an MLM. Published in the Cut on May 1st of this year.
The article provides a detailed account of Monique's journey through the MLM world, shedding light on the financial and emotional tol toll it took on her, which Nick and I will be discussing in this episode. So, Nick, let's get started. Before she got involved with Mary Kay, what was going on with Monique? What was her life like? What was she looking for?
[00:03:59] Speaker C: Well, that's, that's a really great question, Sue. You're right. We need to set the stage. So Monique in 2013, she was 36 years old and she was fresh out of the air force after 16 years of service.
So think about that, right? She spent a long time serving her country and now, you know, she's living in Tallahassee, Florida, where she really knew almost no one. And so it's a big transition, right? Military life to civilian life, new location.
Yeah, it's, it's a lot.
[00:04:36] Speaker B: Wow. Yeah. Huge change. I can't even imagine making that kind of transition after dedicating so much time to the military.
[00:04:43] Speaker C: Military, totally. And you know, it gets even more challenging, right?
So she was, she was sleeping like 15 hours a day in her small hot apartment. And get this, she was mostly eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I mean, that's not a sustainable lifestyle, you know, and, and I think the article mentioned she was spending more money on food for her 90 pound bulldog than she was on herself.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Oh my gosh, that sounds so lonely and, and pretty depressing, honestly.
[00:05:17] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely. And financially, I mean, her only income was her retirement checks from the military. It was like just twelve hundred dollars a month. Barely enough, you know, to cover rent. You know.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: Twelve hundred dollars a month in this economy?
That's, wow, that's barely scraping by, you know. It must have been incredibly stressful.
[00:05:38] Speaker C: Absolutely.
So she knew she needed to find work. I mean, she was looking for something, anything, right?
But every lead she chased just turned out to be a dead end.
So.
So there she is, right? She's hungry, she's lonely, she's broke.
A veteran trying to figure things out. And. And that's when she meets Lynette.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Okay, so this is where the Mary Kay part comes in, right? Lynette is like the. The entry point into this whole world.
[00:06:08] Speaker C: Exactly.
So an acquaintance introduced her to Lynette, who was a Mary Kay beauty consultant.
And, you know, Monique had heard of Mary Kay, of course, but she. She didn't really understand what it was all about. She just knew that Lynette always had, you know, a full face of makeup. And Monique, well, Monique barely even wore lipstick. You know, she felt like Lynette's opposite, a tall, broad shouldered, black military tomboy. And Lynette was short and white, always wearing a skirt suit.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: So Lynette invites Monique to some kind of party.
[00:06:46] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. So Lynette invited her to a party at a place called the Pink Caddy Shack.
[00:06:51] Speaker B: The Pink Caddyshack. Oh, my God.
[00:06:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I know, right? Right. I mean, it sounds. Sounds pretty wild, but it was.
It was just where the local Mary Kay ladies gathered, located, get this, in a drab, nondescript office park in a suburb east of Tallahassee.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: Oh, man, it sounds so. So glamorous.
[00:07:11] Speaker C: I know, right?
So you gotta picture it. The walls were painted in Mary Kay's signature, like, blush, pink and black colors, and adorned with quotes from Mary Kay Ash, who, of course, founded the company in 1963.
[00:07:28] Speaker B: Okay, give me an example of the quotes.
[00:07:31] Speaker C: Okay, so, one, read.
You begin that journey towards success by following two rules. Number one, get started.
Number two, don't quit.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Hmm. Okay, so nothing too original, but.
[00:07:44] Speaker C: Right. Not exactly profound, you know, and, you know, photos of the petite Ash with her kind smile and large blonde bouffant, looking like a combination of Dolly Parton and Nancy Reagan hung nearby.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: Wow, that is quite the visual.
[00:08:02] Speaker C: Oh, yes, totally. And. And crucially, sue, there was pizza at the party, right? Piles of pies spread out over the kitchen, free for the taking.
And, you know, Monique's stomach rumbled. She was hungry, remember?
[00:08:20] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely a big draw.
[00:08:21] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, I think so. So at this Pink Caddyshack, what was the atmosphere? What was the pitch?
[00:08:28] Speaker B: Okay, so most of the women were like Lynette, decked out in a heavy layer of makeup and wearing blazers with matching skirts. Especially glamorous was one consultant named Rose, with a short, spunky haircut, long, shiny nails, a diamond cocktail Ring and a high voice. Right. So Rose explained that Mary Kay consultants were saleswomen. They bought makeup and SK products from the company at a discount and sold them to customers.
But. But the real, real Mary Kay opportunity was that the sales women could make an income off the women they brought in. Women working in what was called their downline. The bigger the downline, the more you got paid.
Rose, like Lynette, was an independent sales director, a very high rank in the company, which was why she and Lynette wore special plai skirt suits.
[00:09:24] Speaker C: H. A pyramid scheme, kind of.
[00:09:26] Speaker B: Yep, that's kind of what it sounds like. Yeah.
[00:09:29] Speaker C: And what did Rose say about her lifestyle?
[00:09:31] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. So Rose told the room that Mary Kay was the reason she had the ring, the nails, and a free car paid for by the company.
The money had changed her life after her husband divorced her and left her with nothing. Now she was drinking champagne on yachts, traveling on paid vacations, winning iPads and jewelry and even a fur coat. Even though Rose sold Mary Kay cosmetics, she explained that because she was an independent contractor, she owned her own business.
She worked for herself. She showed how a new beauty consultant could make 2,500 in just one month.
[00:10:14] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, I hear that all the time in these MLMs.
[00:10:17] Speaker B: $2,500 a month. That's pretty enticing.
[00:10:19] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, that's what they promise. The allure of financial independence and success.
I think for a lot of people in Monique's situation, that's the hook.
[00:10:29] Speaker B: Right, right, right. It sounds like a dream, especially when you're, you know, feeling stuck and struggling financially.
[00:10:36] Speaker C: To her, this was all very alluring.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: So after hearing all this, what was Monique thinking? What did she do next?
[00:10:44] Speaker C: Well, after the party, Monique went back to her apartment that night feeling full and optimistic for the first time in months.
She'd been wondering who she was going to be, and, you know, Mary Kay had given her an answer.
Her life up to this point had been full of hard edges, and here was a soft, pink place to land.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Yeah. So it's like she found her tribe, huh?
[00:11:12] Speaker C: That's right. It's like she found a place where she thought she could belong and succeed.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: Okay, so what's the first step to joining this tribe?
[00:11:20] Speaker C: So she signed up for the $99 Mary Kay starter kit, a package containing brochures and product samples all new consultants are required to buy.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: Hmm. Okay, so it's not free to join. Not a real shocker, I guess.
[00:11:34] Speaker C: No, no, it's not. You know, Monique charged the kit to her credit card, around $118 with tax and shipping, you know, and she decided that her goal would be that $2,500.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: $2,500 a month. Wow. That's pretty ambitious.
[00:11:51] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, that's all she would try to make at first. It would more than double her income.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: I see. So this is all about the promise of a better life, huh?
[00:12:00] Speaker C: Absolutely. You know, the initial optimism and motivation are key to drawing people in.
[00:12:05] Speaker B: Do you think she had any idea what she was getting into? I mean, based on your experience, Nick, I would love to know how often you ran into situations like this.
[00:12:15] Speaker C: Well, with my 25 years in law enforcement as a special agent investigating financial crimes and being a licensed private investigator and a certified fraud specialist, I can tell you this is all too common.
And no, she had no idea what she was getting into.
You know, at this point, it's all hope and dreams.
[00:12:38] Speaker B: Okay, so she gets the starter kit. She's aiming for this $2,500 a month. Where does the story go from there, Nick?
[00:12:46] Speaker C: Well, sue, just shy of like, 10 years and thousands and thousands of her own dollars later, she found herself surrounded by, like, Mary Kay products boxes arranged in, you know, precarious stacks in her closets and along her walls, like the skyline of a pink cardboard city.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: A pink cardboard city. Oh, wow. So it didn't quite work out the way she planned.
[00:13:14] Speaker C: No, not at all. You know, at that point, she was so desperate to get rid of the bottles and compacts, and she was giving them away. She couldn't even use the makeup herself anymore.
[00:13:24] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, why not?
[00:13:26] Speaker C: Well, it had started to give her hives. You know, her face breaking out in red splotches when anything Mary Kay hit her skin.
And I kid you not, she never saw that 2,500 commission check.
Never did.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, Nick, it didn't work out at all. And that's years later. Right. So what went wrong?
[00:13:46] Speaker C: Well, the story says, Monique, you know, losing $75,000 to an MLM was just the latest desperate American roped into a business model called Multi level marketing, or MLM, which has been around for nearly 80 years.
The same model used to be called a profit's pyramid.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: A profit's pyramid. And I think a lot of people have probably heard of this term, too. So for our listeners that might not know what an MLM is, can you give them a little bit more information?
[00:14:20] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, MLMs claim to offer the chance to be your own boss, set your own hours, and achieve financial Freedom. And I've seen so many cases like this.
As with most scams, they prey on the most vulnerable sectors of our society, particularly people who need money.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: Well, and I think, Nick, that's a really good point. Right. Because you spent a lot of years and investigating financial crimes.
[00:14:46] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, it's funny, but the commonality on these type of scams is, I'm going to say it's the initial pitch.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:55] Speaker C: The hook to rope you in is always the same.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:58] Speaker C: Is you, you can make money and be your own boss and set your own hours. All these things.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: It just sounds so good.
[00:15:05] Speaker C: Yeah, it all sounds great.
[00:15:06] Speaker B: Right, Right. And you know, I think the statistics, the story says that though it was invented by men in 1945, 75% are women. Is that something you've seen?
[00:15:19] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, it's often marketed toward women, you know, stay at home moms, military wives and, you know, and other groups.
[00:15:30] Speaker B: Okay, so Nick, what's the big problem with MLMS then?
[00:15:33] Speaker C: Well, you know, sue, the story really hits on what I've seen time and time again.
The big problem with MLMS is that there really aren't any sales being made, at least you know, to real customers.
The only sales that matter are the ones from the multi level companies to their participants or what they buy. Which is, you know, why multi level marketing may constitute one of the most devastating long running scams in modern history.
And it really is a scam.
And as Monique discovered, if you're a woman in mlm, it's almost impossible to make money selling products. The real product being sold is you.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: So wait a second, let me make sure I understand this correctly. The people at the top are not making money based on people purchasing their product. They're making money by recruiting other people and then those other people are, are just buying a bunch of products.
[00:16:37] Speaker C: That's right. Yeah, you're right. It's not about selling it to customers. It's just the members. The ones that, you know, sign up are the ones that buy it. That's how the people at the top make their money. It is, you know, a big reason to call it a scam.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: So how are they able to call this a business?
[00:16:56] Speaker C: Yeah, well, you know, they mask it really well.
But if you think about it, you know, what business model is this?
The company doesn't really care about the actual sales to real customers. They focus on product orders from its members.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: Oh yeah.
[00:17:13] Speaker C: So the company or the person in the MLM is only making money if they buy more products. It's a constant. A constant stream. You've got to keep buying.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: Good point. So it's basically, it's a store where their customers are their employees.
[00:17:29] Speaker C: Oh, yes, exactly. That's a good way to look at it. You know, the. The members have to buy a certain amount of stuff to stay active, you know, and if they don't.
What's the word? If they don't buy more, they just drop off.
[00:17:44] Speaker B: So, Nick, Monique is now in Mary Kay. She's bought the starter kit. She's trying to get to that first goal of $2,500. What does she do day to day?
[00:17:55] Speaker C: Well, you know, she starts doing what her upline Lynette told her to do.
She puts on, like, a full face of makeup, you know, every morning, just like Lynette. She says she never knew who she was gonna run into for a, quote, warm chat, which is what Mary Kay calls the sales warm up.
And so Lynette tells Monique to head out into suburban Tallahassee looking for ideal Mary Kay customers. Soccer moms, housewives, at places like Barnes and Noble, Target, or the mall.
[00:18:30] Speaker B: Oh, wow. So she's really just hitting the streets.
[00:18:33] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. She's, like, out there trying to get those sales, you know, but it's not easy. Right.
And a few weeks into her Mary Kay thing, after spending that $118 on her starter kit, Lynette encouraged her to place her first major product order. And, you know, Lynette tells her that keeping inventory wasn't mandatory.
But the most successful consultants, they typically started by spending $1,800, an amount called a quote star consultant order.
[00:19:10] Speaker B: Wow. $1800. That sounds like a lot.
[00:19:12] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, it's a lot. I mean, it's a lot of money to spend. Right, on products you haven't even sold.
And Lynette even tells her you can't sell from an empty wagon.
[00:19:24] Speaker B: Wow. I mean, that's. It's so manipulative. It's like you need to buy this stuff in order to sell it, but how are you going to make the money back?
[00:19:33] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It's.
You're right. It's manipulative. But Monique does what she advised and charges it to her credit card. Almost $2,200 with tax and shipping.
[00:19:46] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. So she's starting out already in debt, spending $2,200 on this. I mean, is this really what these women are being told that they need to do?
[00:19:56] Speaker C: Yeah, that's what they say. And, you know, it's like, you have to get to this level to Be successful. And that's what they want. They really push them to get to the star consultant level, you know, So.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: I mean, $2,200, that's.
That seems like a lot of money to spend right before she's even sold anything.
[00:20:16] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely, Sue. I mean, it is a lot of money. But in Mary Kay, Monique's order wasn't considered a purchase, right?
[00:20:24] Speaker B: Oh, really?
[00:20:25] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I mean, in company terminology, her $1,800 wholesale order was called, and I'm going to quote again, production, which is an amount used to calculate a consultant's quote, personal retail sales.
[00:20:41] Speaker B: Wow, that's. That's shady.
[00:20:43] Speaker C: You're right. I mean, it's, it's incredibly shady. Right.
You know, Mary Kay assumed that Monique, who bought the products at a 50% discount, would sell them for around double the price.
So the $1,800 was immediately recorded as $3,600 in quote, personal retail sales by Mary Kay.
[00:21:08] Speaker B: But if they never even leave her living room.
[00:21:11] Speaker C: Doesn't matter.
No matter if the products ever left Monique's living room, which for reasons not unique to Monique, many of them never did. The higher Monique's production, the higher the commission went to her upline, and her uplines, uplines and on and on.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: So she's basically just buying her way up the ladder but not really selling anything.
[00:21:34] Speaker C: Precisely. And it benefits everyone above her, even if she's not actually moving product to real customers.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. That's. That's like insane, right? It's just, it's all about appearances and like, buying in.
[00:21:48] Speaker C: Exactly. And it's a trap that so many people fall into thinking that, you know, buying more inventory will somehow magically translate to more sales.
And, and that is how they get you.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's very predatory. So, Nick, what did she do after that? I mean, how did she actually start trying to. To sell this stuff?
[00:22:09] Speaker C: Well, and every three months, Sue, Monique was required to place another production order if she wanted to stay active.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:22:16] Speaker C: Yeah. So. So she needed to start moving her Mary Kay. But she, she soon learned how difficult that would be. I mean, it's just. It's not as easy as they make it seem. Right. No, I mean, on a, on a good day, Monique would find maybe 20 women to approach in the aisles of Target.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Wow. 20.
[00:22:36] Speaker C: Maybe eight on a better day would give her their names and numbers. And on an excellent day, maybe two or three would respond when she wrote them, you know, a cheery note inviting them to the pink caddy shack. Right.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: Do you know what I mean? That's very little.
[00:22:52] Speaker C: I mean. Exactly. Right.
And after all that, on the absolute best day, Monique might make one sale.
[00:22:59] Speaker B: That's it?
[00:23:00] Speaker C: Yeah, that's it. I mean, to achieve this required sifting through a barrage of no's. And they're actually taught this.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: What?
[00:23:08] Speaker C: I'm not kidding. And, you know, the uplines tell them, you know, each one gets you closer to your first yes.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. That's. Wow, that's intense. Right?
[00:23:18] Speaker C: Yeah. And. And she had scripts for every objection. You know, if a potential customer can't afford a product, could she use a credit card? If her husband wouldn't let her make an expensive purchase, could she put it on a husband unawareness plan, you know, and spread it out over a few separate charges?
[00:23:40] Speaker B: That's crazy. It's really messed up.
[00:23:42] Speaker C: You are right. I mean, it's. It's totally predatory.
And, you know, the pressure they put on these women to, like, constantly recruit and sell, it's. It's really damaging.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it sounds exhausting. Right? And. And it's. It's almost like they're preying on people's vulnerabilities and dreams. What about her upline? I mean, what was Lynette like during all this?
[00:24:05] Speaker C: Oh, her upline. Lynette had what seemed like a picture perfect life. I mean, she was always bragging about family vacations to Disney World and renovations on her house.
[00:24:17] Speaker B: Of course you are.
[00:24:18] Speaker C: Right?
Oh, yes. And when Monique asked for advice, Lynette encouraged her to host another party to give more free facials.
You'll have a breakthrough, Lynette told her. God is going to bless your efforts.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: Wow. And that makes it almost seem like you're going to get what's coming to you if you don't do this.
[00:24:38] Speaker C: Exactly.
Exactly. And it really puts the onus on the person not getting sales. Right?
Like, oh, you're just not working hard enough or you're not praying hard enough.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: So after all this, Nick, did. Did Monique ever, like, get any recognition, any sort of, like, visible success from Mary Kay?
[00:24:56] Speaker C: Well, every month at the Pink Caddy Shack, there would be a party for the consultants who had moved up the ranks in Mary Kay.
[00:25:03] Speaker B: Oh, a party. That sounds nice.
[00:25:05] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, for, like, positive reinforcement. Right. And once a beauty consultant had three active distributors in her downline, she. She hit something called Red jacket Status.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: Red jacket. So, Nick, just what is that?
[00:25:18] Speaker C: Well, it's a ceremony where she received an official red Mary Kay blazer. You know, like the ultimate goal. Right.
[00:25:25] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:25:25] Speaker C: Upline said Only the top 6% of the company ever got to Red Jacket. Right.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:25:31] Speaker C: So Monique would watch Lynette and the other directors roll out a red carpet and present the new red jackets with a bouquet of red carnations.
[00:25:42] Speaker B: Huh.
[00:25:43] Speaker C: Then they would go around the room and say one reason for being in the Mary Kay business. Their why? It was either family, God, my children.
[00:25:53] Speaker B: Seriously? Oh, my gosh. I. I mean, that sounds so canned.
[00:25:56] Speaker C: It is. You know, and. And at every party, Monique thought to herself, I can't wait to be there. She was. She was craving the recognition, the chance to feel glamorous and special.
And you see how they, like, prey on people's insecurities.
[00:26:13] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, definitely. And I'm sure that just made her want it even more. And she. She really wanted this. So what was it like when she finally got it, Nick?
[00:26:22] Speaker C: Finally. In the spring of 2015, Sue, Monique hit red jacket after recruiting two friends from the military and one woman on a warm chat in Target.
[00:26:33] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:26:34] Speaker C: Yeah. And for her ceremony, Monique wore sky high heels with a dramatic zebra print and red piping matching her new red blazer. Right.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: Oh, she. She went all out.
[00:26:45] Speaker C: She did. She did. And. And she had to pay for the cost of the jacket, but. But got a $50 rebate from Mary Kay.
But, you know, now at the Red Jacket parties, Monique was one of the leaders in the room, the one to say her why?
[00:27:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. She's one of them now.
[00:27:06] Speaker C: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. She perfected her story that she was out of the military and she didn't want to do what others told her anymore. Right?
[00:27:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:14] Speaker C: Mary Kay was affording her not just a chance to pay her bills, but to have a nice lifestyle and sense of confidence.
It's like they pump you up.
[00:27:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:27:25] Speaker C: But, you know, sue, behind the scenes, Mary Kay boxes piled up in Monique's apartment. Right?
[00:27:31] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[00:27:31] Speaker C: Oh, yes.
Now she was dipping into her only savings, 20,000, to place her star consultant orders. Her benefits from the government had gone up by a few thousand dollars, but nearly everything was going back out to Mary K.
Oh, she's.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: She's just throwing money away now.
[00:27:49] Speaker C: Absolutely. You know, but Lynette kept encouraging her that she would make it all back if she kept moving up.
You know, it's always like that, right?
[00:27:59] Speaker B: It's just around the corner.
[00:28:00] Speaker C: Yeah, it's just around the corner, exactly Right.
One particularly humiliating day, Monique was low on gas and ran completely out just as she was about to pull into a gas station in her rundown Chevy Tahoe?
[00:28:14] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[00:28:14] Speaker C: A group of guys hanging out in front helped to push her car all the way to the pump. One of them noticed she was all dolled up and in her red jacket with her Mary Kay pin and bumper sticker. She'll never forget when he said, laughing, you better get that pink Cadillac soon, huh?
[00:28:34] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. That's. That's awful.
[00:28:36] Speaker C: Very awful. Right? And you see how they take advantage of people's emotions.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: So what's next for Monique?
[00:28:41] Speaker C: Well, in 2018, Sue, Monique decided she was sick of going to Mary Kay Seminar, the annual company convention in Dallas.
[00:28:49] Speaker B: And.
[00:28:50] Speaker C: And sitting on the sidelines, I bet. Oh, yes. You know, Seminar was still the best part of Mary Kay, especially awards night, the pageant. Like part of the convention when consultants are recognized for their success.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: Awards night? Wow.
[00:29:05] Speaker C: Right. But for the past three years, she had sat in her formal gown, watching the women on stage from the discomfort of her plastic folding chair.
She vowed that she would make princess court of Sales, a distinction bestowed to the consultants who sell at least $20,000 worth of Mary Kay during the company's fiscal year from July to June.
[00:29:31] Speaker B: Oh, so she wants to be one of those people up on stage?
[00:29:34] Speaker C: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. It meant she would have to spend around 10,000 wholesale.
[00:29:38] Speaker B: Wow, that's a lot.
[00:29:39] Speaker C: It is a lot.
The end of June was a mad dash as Monique scrambled to make sales, which meant buying products herself. Right?
[00:29:48] Speaker B: Oh, she's buying them again.
[00:29:49] Speaker C: Oh, yes. And she desperately posted on Facebook, trying to get friends to order through her.
[00:29:54] Speaker B: Oh, man.
[00:29:55] Speaker C: But inevitably, sue, she had to make up the difference herself.
So, you know she's got Lynette, right?
[00:30:01] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:30:02] Speaker C: Lynette encouraged her daily with voice notes on Voxer, the Mary Kay messaging app.
Sometime after midnight on June 30, Lynette sent Monique a congratulations text. She had made it.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: Oh, so she got there.
[00:30:17] Speaker C: She got there, she got there. She spent her money.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: So what happened when it was time for the seminar?
[00:30:22] Speaker C: Oh, yes. So in July, sue, when it came time for seminar, Monique picked out a peach colored off the shoulder dress to wear during the special ceremony for the princess court.
[00:30:32] Speaker B: Ooh, I bet she was excited.
[00:30:34] Speaker C: Oh, she was.
But she still had to sit in the same folding chair in the convention center with her team.
But when the time came, she and her fellow princesses headed backstage to assemble for their walk across the stage.
[00:30:49] Speaker B: Okay, so how did it go?
[00:30:50] Speaker C: Ah, so she was paired with a brunette consultant who suggested to Monique that they should hug when they got to the middle.
Maybe we'll get on the Jumbotron, the brunette suggested, referring to the large screens that flanked the stage.
[00:31:06] Speaker B: Jumbotron Dreams. Wow.
[00:31:08] Speaker C: Oh, yes. She wanted to be seen, you know, but it all happened so quickly. She and her partner hugged, but they didn't make it on the screen.
[00:31:17] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[00:31:18] Speaker C: Oh, no. You know, and a man in a tuxedo helped her off the stage. And that was.
Was just a little taste. Monique remembered.
[00:31:28] Speaker B: So she still wanted more?
[00:31:29] Speaker C: Oh, yes. But it was not enough.
She definitely wanted more.
So she needed to keep chasing that carrot. Right.
[00:31:37] Speaker B: So after all that, what was next for Monique?
[00:31:40] Speaker C: Oh, Sue. So get this. God finally seemed to bless Monique's efforts more than five whole years into Mary Kay. It's like after all this time, something finally clicks, you know?
[00:31:51] Speaker B: Okay, so what happened?
[00:31:53] Speaker C: So she recruited a girl named Harmony. Harmony's husband was in construction and. And made good money.
So she quickly recruited seven people. But not all of them wanted to actually become Mary Kay consultants.
[00:32:07] Speaker B: Oh, you're right, because if they all wanted to do it, it would work out much better.
[00:32:11] Speaker C: Totally. She goes for several. Harmony just set up consultant accounts under their names and Social Security numbers and paid for their orders herself. So, you know, Monique was worried that the company would see that all these new recruits were using the same financial information, but no one ever said a word. That's wild, isn't it? So, suddenly, Harmony's industriousness propelled Monique into eligibility for an elite status. Sales director and qualification, or DiQ.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: DiQ. So what's that entail?
[00:32:47] Speaker C: Okay, so with more than eight consultants under her, Monique could now enter her DiQ period.
What women in Mary Kay call the hamster wheel.
[00:32:58] Speaker B: The hamster wheel. Oh, my gosh.
[00:33:00] Speaker C: Oh, yes. And I mean, Right. The requirements for a D.I.Q. are incredibly arduous. Oh, gosh, Sue. Right. For three months, each of her personal recruits has to spend $4,000. Right. I mean, think about it. Her downline must number at least 24 consultants who spent $13,500 collectively.
[00:33:24] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, that is a lot of money.
[00:33:26] Speaker C: It is. And only $3,000 of this total can come from her. If she misses any of these goals, she fails her qualification, and the clock starts over.
[00:33:35] Speaker B: Wait, so if she fails, all of that progress is gone?
[00:33:39] Speaker C: Yep. It starts all over again.
[00:33:41] Speaker B: So the clock resets?
[00:33:42] Speaker C: Oh, yes. So the clock resets. You know, it's. It's really tough.
So it's common for a consultant to get on and off the DiQ hamster wheel for years and before she ever becomes a sales director.
But it not Only produces enormous pressure on her. It forces her to pass that pressure downward, you see?
[00:34:05] Speaker B: How do you mean?
[00:34:06] Speaker C: Oh, yes.
So by orienting the qualifications to her whole downline, the consultant pushing to become a director has to push others, right? She has to find other women willing to do exactly what she has been doing.
Hustling constantly, doing whatever creative math she can to make minimum commitments, recruiting massively duplicate herself. Oh, yes, right. So. And you know, Sue, I am telling you right now that I never would have guessed that MLMs are so structured and difficult.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: Wow, that sounds like a lot of pressure. I can't imagine trying to keep up with all those requirements.
Oh, my gosh. So what happens after all that?
[00:34:50] Speaker C: Okay, so finally, Monique becomes an independent sales director in November 2019.
And. And sue, this is mind blowing, right? She had spent more than 50,000 on her Mary Kay business over the last nearly six years. Oh, my gosh. Isn't that insane?
[00:35:13] Speaker B: That is. That is insane. She spent more than she made.
[00:35:16] Speaker C: Uh, yeah, well, at the time, she had no idea it was that much.
Mary Kay had warped her sense of the normal inputs that go into balancing a checkbook, let alone running a business.
[00:35:28] Speaker B: What?
[00:35:29] Speaker C: I know.
She thought of all the products sitting in her spare room, not as purchases, but as future sales.
She ignored the unpaid bills and credit card debt in favor of focusing on the horizon, which Lynette and everyone else in Mary Kay promised would be bright if she just kept going. Do you know what I mean?
[00:35:49] Speaker B: Wow. I mean. Oh, my gosh. So that is like being drunk on the Kool Aid.
[00:35:53] Speaker C: You're right. Oh, yes.
So soon after becoming an official sales director, Monique got to visit the Mary Kay corporate headquarters in the suburb of Addison, about 15 minutes from downtown Dallas.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: Oh, that's the motherland, so to speak.
[00:36:11] Speaker C: You're right. Exactly.
[00:36:13] Speaker B: Did you ever visit it as a special agent for the Treasury Department?
[00:36:17] Speaker C: No, unfortunately, Sue, I never got to visit.
Which might have been a bad thing for them, because my visits usually were for official purposes, not for buying makeup or touring facilities.
[00:36:31] Speaker B: Ah, good point, Nick.
[00:36:32] Speaker C: But Monique said that walking through the doors of that lobby was probably the best part of the whole thing.
As she entered, Mary Kay employees came to the windows and balconies of every floor above the lobby's central atrium, cheering, clapping and shaking golden, pink Mary Kay pom poms for the new directors. So you can imagine all of the.
The energy in the room.
[00:36:58] Speaker B: That's gotta feel great.
[00:36:59] Speaker C: You are right.
So the employees are yelling great job. As Monique walked by and congratulations. She took a video on her phone as she walked through, her camera shaking.
You can hear her sobbing in the background of the footage, you know. Oh my God. She repeats over and over. She had never been shown so much love all at once. Gosh, 13 floors of people and they're all just cheering for you. Isn't that wild?
[00:37:30] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That is so surreal. Like, it is a warped reality.
So everything's looking up, but what happens next?
[00:37:38] Speaker C: Okay, so six months after Monique becomes an independent sales director, she was still struggling, still struggling to maintain her new rank. Still.
Now she needed her team to buy $4,500 worth of Mary Kay products every quarter.
[00:37:56] Speaker B: You gotta be kidding me.
[00:37:58] Speaker C: I know, Sue. It's insane. It's like she was playing a constant game. Which bills could she avoid? How long could she go without paying her mortgage?
[00:38:08] Speaker B: So this is like a perpetual problem now.
[00:38:10] Speaker C: You're right. Totally. That's right. And then, sue, in March 2020, you guessed it, the merry go round stopped. Florida issued a stay at home order in response to the COVID 19 pandemic. And you know, the fragile house of cards that was Monique's Mary Kay business fell apart.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: Oh no.
[00:38:30] Speaker C: I know. None of her Downline had extra money coming in. And the handful of customers Monique had in Tallahassee stopped buying Mary Kay products.
[00:38:40] Speaker B: Wow, that is bad. That's really bad.
[00:38:43] Speaker C: It's terrible, Sue. I'll do what I can, her team members told her. But most of them had second jobs and many of them had been laid off and it wasn't enough.
Can you believe that?
[00:38:55] Speaker B: Yeah. No, that makes sense. I mean, people, it's like a luxury, right? You don't think about your Mary Kay when you're wondering how you are going to feed your family and pay the rent.
[00:39:06] Speaker C: Oh yes, you're right. Totally, yes.
And, and Monique found it incredibly difficult to pressure even her newer recruits. You know, during this time, her upline, Lynette, are you ready for this? Sue told her to encourage her downline to invest their stimulus payments into their Mary Kay businesses.
[00:39:26] Speaker B: What?
[00:39:27] Speaker C: I know you are not going to believe what she said next. According to Monique, she wanted her to get Tara, who is a single mom with two kids living at a trailer park, to buy $1,200 worth of products.
All Mo' Nique could say is, are you serious?
[00:39:44] Speaker B: Oh, that is horrible.
[00:39:46] Speaker C: Terrible.
[00:39:47] Speaker B: So I guess it just really comes crashing down at that point.
[00:39:51] Speaker C: Yeah, pretty much.
Monique, she, she kept placing orders under her recruits names with her own credit card.
I'll just sell it. I'll just sell it. You know, she told herself as the boxes filled up her second bedroom. But she knew it wasn't sustainable. The debt. The debt was rising like quicksand.
Ever since the night she made sales director, she had heard a tiny voice in her head saying, you know, you'll have to quit, right?
It was getting louder. I mean, sue, can you imagine?
[00:40:27] Speaker B: Wow. So, like, everything has changed, and now she's hearing a voice telling her to quit.
[00:40:32] Speaker C: Yep. Oh, yes. That's right.
So with the women unable to gather at the Pink Caddyshack, Lynette and her uplines tried to keep all their consultants motivated with zoom meeting after Zoom meeting, they sent a list of positive affirmations for a great attitude in just 21 days.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Really?
[00:40:54] Speaker C: Oh, yes. Monique tried repeating them to herself every day. I love my Mary Kay business.
I am a booking machine. I have at least 10 appointments on my books at all times.
Everyone I meet wants to know why I am so happy.
[00:41:11] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. But. But she knows that this isn't true anymore. She is just saying all these things. But, I mean, wow, right?
[00:41:18] Speaker C: And get this.
At her annual physical, Monique found she had gained weight. Her blood pressure was up.
The stress caused her to withdraw even further from friends as she carried the burden of her Mary Kay business.
[00:41:33] Speaker B: Wow. That is bad for her health.
[00:41:35] Speaker C: Yeah, I know. It's so sad, Sue. I mean, by May, Mary Kay had called Monique and told her she'd missed production again.
This was the third month straight, so they were taking her directorship.
[00:41:48] Speaker B: Okay, so. So she is like, wow. Wow. All this pressure, you know, I mean, from all sides. Nick, you were a special agent investigating financial crimes, right?
[00:41:58] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: Why do they put so much pressure on people in mlms? It just seems really strange to me.
[00:42:03] Speaker C: Well, sue, as a licensed private investigator and certified fraud specialist, let me tell you, it's all about that pyramid structure. The people at the top, the uplines. They make their money off the backs of those below them.
So, you know, they need to keep pushing, keep recruiting, keep selling, no matter the cost. It's a. It's a pressure cooker, Sue.
[00:42:32] Speaker B: Wow, Nick. Yeah, it really does sound like a pressure cooker for Monique, that's for sure. And they kept pushing even when things got really bad?
[00:42:42] Speaker C: Oh, yes. Even then, a year after losing her status as sales director, mo' Nique was in the limbo that many beauty consultants find themselves in. You know, at one time or at many times in the life of their Mary Kay business, she was still ordering products every so often to remain active, she had three recruits left, but she had fallen back down to a mere red jacket.
If she wanted to become a director again, she would have to start the qualification process all over. She would have to make so many orders, get so many new recruits. Instead, she just limped along.
[00:43:24] Speaker B: So, Nick, just to be clear, like, after all the success she had, she's back to where she started, right?
[00:43:30] Speaker C: Oh, yes. Yes, she is.
I mean, Sue. In May 2022, Monique finally scheduled a much needed hysterectomy surgery. She let her upline Lynette know that she was going to be out of commission for the next few weeks. You know.
[00:43:46] Speaker B: Wow. Okay, so she's going through a major surgery, and I'm sure she needs some rest.
[00:43:51] Speaker C: Yes, rest is exactly what she needed.
[00:43:53] Speaker B: It sure is. She had been enduring a lot of stress since she started this entrepreneurial endeavor known as Mary Kay.
[00:44:01] Speaker C: Sue. Get this. This is the kicker.
Nevertheless, after she had the surgery and was recovering in bed in the hospital room, Lynette texted her, did she see if Marilyn, one of her few remaining customers, needed an order?
[00:44:17] Speaker B: Oh, come on. Seriously?
[00:44:18] Speaker C: I'm telling you, sue, there was no preamble about being sorry to bother her, no asking her about how she was doing.
I mean, talk about insensitive.
Can you imagine?
[00:44:29] Speaker B: Wow, that's. That's just so. So terrible and selfish. I mean, I can imagine that. It just felt like a slap in the face for all the work that she had done.
[00:44:38] Speaker C: Right. I hear you.
That was it, Monique decided The sting of Lynette's text, a woman she had known by this point for more than eight years and considered a friend, tapped something deep inside.
The dead, inert feeling she had been carrying around, hidden behind her beautiful Mary Kay face was replaced by blazing anger.
[00:45:03] Speaker B: Blazing anger. Oh, yeah.
[00:45:04] Speaker C: Oh, yes. And.
And Monique's time, her money, her body, she decided, was worth more than whatever Mary Kay had turned her into.
An automaton. Chasing tiny checks, pushing lipsticks.
The voice that had been nagging at her started screaming. On an afternoon in May, a few days after her surgery, Monique.
[00:45:28] Speaker B: She blocked Lynette's phone number. Wow. After eight years, it must have been so difficult for her to finally do this. She finally understood that her health, it was worth more. So what happened after that? I mean, it really sounds like she's had enough, right?
[00:45:43] Speaker C: You're right. After Monique quit Mary Kay, she still hadn't really left Mary Kay.
Or it hadn't left her.
Every morning, affirmations and instructions rang in her ears.
Meanwhile, the various Facebook groups And voxer chats that had once pinged throughout her every day were silent.
Women she had thought of as friends had stopped speaking to her.
[00:46:09] Speaker B: So she was alone?
[00:46:10] Speaker C: Oh, yes, she was.
Very much so. I mean, her account hadn't technically been closed out yet. It takes one year after her last order for a consultant to officially go to what they call Mary Kay Heaven.
[00:46:25] Speaker B: Mary Kay Heaven? It sounds like they got a name for everything.
[00:46:28] Speaker C: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
[00:46:30] Speaker B: So what happened next?
[00:46:31] Speaker C: Well, sue, when Monique was struggling in the company during the pandemic, she had heard about another Mary Kay consultant named Jessica. Jessica was a top sales director with wide set blue eyes, thick brown hair, and a perfect white smile.
[00:46:48] Speaker B: Another one, huh?
[00:46:49] Speaker C: Oh, yes. But for all her success, she had left Mary Kay in January 2020.
Now, Jessica didn't mention Mary Kay by name, but she began posting about her old networking marketing job, about how she never had time for her husband and children.
About how she lost herself and had to bend to fit the company's culture.
She had rested her time back in order to spend time with her kids and herself.
Her messages about self care and happiness resonated with Monique.
I am so lost because all I do is marry Kay from sun up to sundown, she thought.
[00:47:33] Speaker B: It sounds like Jessica found a way to capitalize on her Mary Kay experience.
[00:47:38] Speaker C: Oh, yes. Jessica had started her own virtual coaching company, and she was primarily working with Mary Kay Beauty Consultants.
In 2020, Mo' Nique had signed up for her program.
$12,000 for one year of group coaching sessions, which Monique had been allowed to pay in monthly installments.
[00:47:59] Speaker B: A coaching company for Mary Kay.
[00:48:01] Speaker C: You know that's right.
[00:48:02] Speaker B: Wow. It's like the, the. It's like the blind leading the blind almost.
[00:48:07] Speaker C: You're right. You're right.
[00:48:08] Speaker B: I mean, why would she want to keep associating with Mary Kay members? If it was like such a bad experience for her or if it was a scam, why would she keep coaching other people for it? I mean, it just sounds like she's using her platform to exploit, like, the same types of people.
[00:48:29] Speaker C: Well, sue, you gotta remember something. People like to make money and exploit people, you know, like it or not. Right.
So what happens is, you know, Jessica, even though she wasn't in Mary Kay, she knew all these people. She could offer something else to these people and guess what they're gonna do? They're gonna jump at it because they want to make some extra money.
[00:48:53] Speaker B: Yeah. So in essence, it's just another version. Right. Of taking advantage of these people. So what exactly did this Jessica Coach do?
[00:49:01] Speaker C: Well, the modules covered things like visioneering, Jessica's term for manifestation, and something called eft, or Emotional Freedom Technique. Tapping.
[00:49:11] Speaker B: Visioneering? What in the world is that even a word? And what does that even mean? It sounds like something out of a sci fi movie.
[00:49:20] Speaker C: I know, right? It's all about, like, you know, creating this vivid picture of the future and, you know, setting your intentions. It's this new age type of stuff.
[00:49:32] Speaker B: Oh, so it's like setting goals?
[00:49:34] Speaker C: Yeah, setting goals, but, like, with extra, like, sparkles, you know? And eft?
Well, that involved gently but firmly hitting your body at various points with your index and middle fingers to restore energy channels disrupted by negative emotions.
[00:49:51] Speaker B: What, tapping? You mean like. Like tapping on yourself?
[00:49:54] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. Just tap, tap, tapping on yourself.
[00:49:57] Speaker B: I've heard of that. People say it helps with anxiety and stuff. I didn't know it could also help you run a successful Mary Kay business.
[00:50:06] Speaker C: Well, that's what Jessica was selling. You know, she taught a tapping session for money responsibility, which Monique was supposed to do twice a day for two weeks. Repeating mantras like, I appreciate how money shows up for me today and money flows to me with ease, knowing I will help it expand.
[00:50:27] Speaker B: So, like, she's tapping and chanting about money?
[00:50:30] Speaker C: That's right, Sue.
[00:50:31] Speaker B: And this is supposed to help her business how, exactly?
[00:50:34] Speaker C: Well, the idea, you know, at least according to Jessica, was that this was how she was going to improve her business.
You know, by fixing her energy, she would fix her finances.
[00:50:46] Speaker B: Wow. And Monique bought into this?
[00:50:48] Speaker C: Well, she was desperate, sue, remember?
And Jessica presented it as this, you know, holistic, empowering approach.
It's easy to see how someone, especially after the Mary Kay experience, could be drawn to something.
[00:51:05] Speaker B: So after the tapping and the visioneering, what happened next?
[00:51:09] Speaker C: Okay, so Jessica also sent Monique to her friend, a financial coach who worked with Mary Kay consultants and other MLM distributors. Right? This guy's name was Ross. And she said he would help her reduce her credit card debt and help her sell all the Mary Kay products, you know, sitting in her house.
[00:51:33] Speaker B: Okay, so a financial coach. That sounds promising.
[00:51:36] Speaker C: Yeah, right?
Seemed legit at first.
So Monique paid Ross like 3,000 for a few weeks of coaching. Then she paid another 5,000 for more coaching that he said would help take her to the next level.
[00:51:52] Speaker B: Wow. So 8,000 total. What kind of advice was he giving her?
[00:51:56] Speaker C: Well, Monique says that at first, Ross helped her with basic financial skills she didn't have. How to really read a credit card statement, how to balance her checkbook. You know, basic stuff.
[00:52:10] Speaker B: Okay, that actually Sounds really helpful. I mean, so many people, even outside of MLM situations, could benefit from that kind of guidance.
[00:52:19] Speaker C: Oh, yes, you're right. Absolutely. But once she left Mary Kay In 2022, he pitched her on a year's worth of coaching in a new program, one that would help her figure out what her million dollar business was going to be. She would finally be a real entrepreneur.
[00:52:38] Speaker B: Oh, I have a feeling I know where this is going.
[00:52:41] Speaker C: You do? You do? The program cost, like, $18,000. And Ross recommended a company that gave Monique a loan to pay for it.
[00:52:50] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. So she's getting further into debt to chase this dream that's being sold to her.
[00:52:55] Speaker C: Exactly, exactly.
And here's the thing, Sue. Most of the businesses Ross and his team encouraged her to explore were other types of coaching.
[00:53:05] Speaker B: More coaching.
[00:53:06] Speaker C: More coaching. Yes.
So Monique had decided that she wanted to start a support group for women veterans. Right. Like her. But she kept balking at the price. Ross and his fellow coaches in the program were urging her to charge $1200.
[00:53:26] Speaker B: $1200 for a support group? Yikes. It's one scam after another.
[00:53:31] Speaker C: It's. It's crazy, right? Monique had been upfront with the group about her experience in Mary Kay and how it devastated her own bank account. So how.
How was she going to find vulnerable veteran women and ask them to pay so much? And for what?
Her advice?
[00:53:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that sounds really exploitative.
[00:53:53] Speaker C: Exactly. So Monique's like, how can I dare get in front of these veteran women talking about, hey, I battled this and I battled that. I ain't got no training, but let me be your leader here. Pay me a gazillion bucks. She said, how would it help them?
[00:54:09] Speaker B: Good for her for pushing back. I mean, it sounds like finally she's realizing that this whole thing is just not right.
[00:54:16] Speaker C: Right, right.
So Ross eventually enlisted another former Mary Kay distributor named Chelsea, whose focus was social media, to work with Monique.
[00:54:27] Speaker B: Oh, so it's a whole team of former Mary Kay people now.
[00:54:30] Speaker C: Yes. And like, they taught her how to apply for a new kind of home equity loan to come up with more money for a new program, but she was turned down.
Fortunately, that's when Monique started noticing how many active and former Mary Kay women were working with Ross, Jessica and Chelsea.
[00:54:52] Speaker B: Wait a minute. So she realized that they were all connected.
[00:54:55] Speaker C: Exactly. During one virtual meeting, Ross said that a million dollars in business had come from Jessica's referrals alone. And she realized that the coaches were passing her and other Mary Kay participants around in a kind of Loop.
[00:55:10] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. So they were just recycling clients amongst themselves?
[00:55:14] Speaker C: Exactly, Sue.
She started to feel exactly like she had in Mary Kay when her upline Lynette was telling her to go out and find another. You.
You paid for coaching. The coaches told her. So you can find another veteran woman who can pay for coaching.
Though she had yet to find a real client, do any kind of coaching at all, or build any kind of real business.
[00:55:41] Speaker B: Wow. So it all comes full circle. They're selling her on the idea of finding someone just like her to exploit. And this woman has been through so much.
[00:55:50] Speaker C: It's a vicious cycle, Sue. It really is. It's like they're preying on her past vulnerabilities and using her own experience to convince her to do the same to others.
[00:56:01] Speaker B: I. I can't believe it. I can't believe the coaches would be so obvious about it.
[00:56:06] Speaker C: Well, the coaches told her that charging those exorbitant prices meant she knew what she was worth.
She was setting her value in the world. The unspoken implication was that if she wasn't willing to find another her someone to pay and charge them thousands for advice, she wasn't worth very much at all. It was, um, you know, a mind game, Sue. They were trying to manipulate her into believing that her worth was tied to how much she could exploit others.
[00:56:36] Speaker B: So after all that, did. Did Monique manage to get out of this cycle? I mean, what's the final takeaway from all this?
[00:56:43] Speaker C: Well, Sue, Monique, she finally, like, had enough. You know, she.
She said, I don't want to use people.
And that's, like, now a decade since she signed up for Mary Kay after eating pizza at the Pink Caddy Shack.
[00:57:00] Speaker B: I'm glad she finally realized that. But it's still heartbreaking that it took her so long and cost her so much.
[00:57:07] Speaker C: Right? You're right. She still isn't exactly sure how much she spent on Mary Kay beauty products, but based on her minimum orders, she estimated it was over $75,000.
[00:57:19] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:57:20] Speaker C: And that wasn't including money she spent on seminar tickets, you know, throwing events for her downline, and on other products from the company, like her business cards and jackets. But she guesses that she never made more than $5,000 total in retail sales and in commissions from Mary Kay from her team.
[00:57:42] Speaker B: So she lost $70,000 more.
[00:57:45] Speaker C: Yeah. She said her largest check from the company was eleven hundred dollars.
[00:57:48] Speaker B: That is. That's just devastating. I mean, she put in all that work, all that money, and she barely made anything back.
[00:57:54] Speaker C: Exactly, Sue. And Monique ended up doing what she always said in her why speech she never wanted to do again.
She was working for someone else.
[00:58:05] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:58:05] Speaker C: She took a job in an insurance office.
And Monique hated the idea that she was no longer her own boss.
[00:58:14] Speaker B: So it was like. It was like she went full circle back to where she started, but with a huge financial loss.
[00:58:19] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. But sue, here's the thing. She had more time for herself than when she was in Mary Kay, right? It felt like freedom.
No more daily check ins from uplines or coaches. No more books, no more podcasts, unless she chose them herself. And she was shredding the piles of papers and notebooks. She had kept their pages of mantras and affirmations reduced to ribbons.
[00:58:46] Speaker B: At least she got her life back, even though it came at such a high price. It sounds like she was able to reclaim her independence in a way that Mary Kay never allowed.
So is she completely out of the MLM world now?
[00:59:02] Speaker C: For now. Right.
Well, every so often, Monique gets a message from another woman on Facebook or LinkedIn about an opportunity she has to share.
But sometimes she feels the pull of this time it'll be different.
Or it only takes one miracle moment.
But so far she has politely declined them all.
[00:59:25] Speaker B: Good for her. Good for her. She needs to remember what she went through and not fall for that trap again.
[00:59:31] Speaker C: Absolutely. She needs to protect herself and learn from her past experiences. And hopefully her story can serve as a warning to others who are considering joining an mlm.
[00:59:41] Speaker B: So, Nick, that was, that was quite a story.
I think we've really uncovered the dangers of MLMs and just how easy it is to get sucked in.
What are your final thoughts on Monique's journey?
[00:59:56] Speaker C: Well, Sue, Monique's story, you know, it's a stark reminder of how these, these multi level marketing schemes can really, like, exploit people's dreams and vulnerabilities.
The promise of financial independence, it's often just a mirage, right, that leads to, to significant financial and emotional distress.
I mean, as we've seen, like the focus on recruitment, it really outweighs the focus on, like actual product sales, you know, creating this unsustainable cycle where the only way to really make money is to bring in more people. And, you know, that's the definition of a pyramid scheme, more or less.
[01:00:41] Speaker B: You're so right. And it's so predatory, it's heartbreaking to see how these companies can take advantage of people's hopes and dreams. And like her story, it's, it's not unique.
There are so many people out there who've had similar experiences with MLMs.
[01:01:00] Speaker C: Oh, yes.
Oh, you're absolutely right, Sue. This is like a widespread problem and it's so important to really, you know, be aware of the warning signs and do your research before you join any, any kind of direct selling opportunity.
Remember, if it sounds too good to be true, you know, it probably is. Right? I mean, in my, in my years of, of investigating these financial crimes, I've seen so many cases just like Monique's where, where people, you know, they end up losing everything.
[01:01:38] Speaker B: Wow. And, and it's, it's just so important to stay informed and protect yourself.
So on that note, that's all the time we have for today's episode. Nick, thank you so much for sharing your expertise and for helping us understand the dark side of mlms.
[01:01:55] Speaker C: Oh, my pleasure, Sue. But before we wrap up, if any of our listeners want to dig deeper into the truth about MLMs, I highly recommend checking out the FTC's guide on multi level marketing and pyramid
[email protected] and for a deeper investigation into how these schemes really work, visit pyramidscheme alert.org by Robert Fitzpatrick, author of Ponzinomics.
These are must reads if you're serious about protecting yourself or someone you care about.
[01:02:29] Speaker B: And thank you listeners for tuning in to behind the Scams. We hope you found this episode informative and and eye opening. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss our next episode where we'll be diving into the world of cryptocurrency scams where Nick will tell us the intricate plans they use to steal people's money. So stay safe, stay informed, and we'll catch you next time on behind the Scams. Now, Miles, please close out another fantastic.
[01:03:00] Speaker A: Episode for us, who if that episode didn't make you throw your upline into a downline spiral of existential dread, you weren't listening. Close enough. Huge thanks to Nick and Sue for reminding us that if someone hands you a free facial and a dream car brochure, your wallet might be the one taking the real makeover. If you're still thinking, hey, maybe I could make $2,500 a month too.
Rewind this episode and try again. For more info, check out the FTC's guide on MLMs or Robert Fitzpatrick's site at pyramidschemalert.org and remember, when someone tells you to be your own boss, make sure it doesn't come with a $1200 starter kit and a closet full of regret. That's it for this episode of behind the Scams. I'M Miles, signing off. Keep your eyes open, your credit cards hidden, and we'll see you next time.
