Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign the Scams I am Nick Henley, the founder of the nonprofit scam prevention organization Stamp Out Scams. This is episode four of our podcast and today we will be talking about a scam known as the customer service scam. In this episode, we will be hearing about this very, very common scam and about a real life victim who lost a lot of money to the scam. Joining me today is my co host and wife, Sue. Welcome, Sue.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: Thanks, Nick. I'm particularly concerned about today's topic because customer service scams are becoming more sophisticated and widespread. We'll be sharing a powerful story about a woman named Marsha smith who lost $75,000 to scammers who posed as Amazon customer service representatives. He claimed someone had ordered an expensive item, a $400 air purifier, without her permission. Many of us have to deal with customer representatives on a weekly, if not daily basis. So the scammers target a very common task for most people. They then twist and turn it into a scam. Simply heartless. In this case, an innocent victim named Marsha lost her life saving savings.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: That's right, Sue. And what makes Marsha's story especially heartbreaking is that she was targeted during an incredibly vulnerable time in her life.
But before we dive into her story, we'll help our listeners understand exactly how these scams work and why they're so effective. Let's start by explaining what customer service scams actually are. These are schemes where criminals pose as representatives from well known companies, typically targeting people who are searching online for customer support numbers or help with products they've purchased.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: Precisely, Nick. What makes these scams particularly dangerous is how they exploit our trust in major companies like Amazon, Microsoft or Apple. The scammers create very convincing fake websites and advertisements that appear legitimate at first glance.
[00:02:19] Speaker A: And this is where something called malvertising comes into play. Sue, could you explain what that term means for our listeners?
[00:02:26] Speaker B: Of course, Nick. Malvertising is essentially malicious advertising. Scammers create fake ads that appear in search results when people look for customer service numbers or support contacts. These ads often appear right at the top of search results, making them seem legitimate and trustworthy. What's particularly concerning is how sophisticated these operations have become. They're not just putting up random phone numbers anymore. They're using advanced techniques to manipulate search engine results and create convincing fake websites.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. And here's what Typically when someone calls these fake numbers, they're connected to well spoken, professional sounding individuals who are actually scammers. These criminals are skilled at creating a false sense of urgency or Crisis. And having experience with website design and maintenance, I can tell you that a fake website can be designed and hosted in a matter of hours. There are website templates all over the Internet that can be purchased for $35 or less. They simply need to be customized to fit the scammer's needs. So let me share with you the true story of Marsha Smith, a grandmother from just outside San Diego who fell victim to one of these customer service scams. What makes her story particularly heartbreaking is the circumstances that led up to it.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: Yes, Marsha's story really shows how these scammers prey on people when they're at their most vulnerable.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Yes, this is a sad fact about scammers. They time their contact to coincide with when a victim is the most vulnerable. So Marsha had just gone through an unimaginable tragedy. In August of 2024, she lost her daughter to an invasive brain tumor. And if that wasn't difficult enough, she was also preparing for the arrival of a new grandchild just a week after her daughter's passing.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: It's hard to imagine dealing with such conflicting emotions. The profound grief of losing a child while also trying to stay strong for the rest of the family during what should have been a joyous time.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: Precisely. And it was during this emotionally fragile period that Marsha wanted to do something special for her son's birthday. She decided to order his favorite cheesecake. Something that should have been a simple gesture of love.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: But that's when things started to go wrong, isn't it, Nick?
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Yes, it is.
This when her scam nightmare started? When she tried to contact Amazon's customer service about the order, she discovered that the number she had saved wasn't working anymore. So she did what many of us would do. She turned to Google to find the correct number.
[00:05:22] Speaker B: And this is where the scammer entered the picture. A very tricky tactic on the scammer's part. Just another tool in their scammer playbook.
[00:05:30] Speaker A: Yes, sue, yet another scammer tactic in their big book of deceptions. She found what she thought was Amazon's customer service number and called it. The person who answered identified himself as David Miller. And he immediately began creating a sense of panic by telling her that her Amazon account had been compromised.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: And given everything Marsha was dealing with at the time, she wasn't in the best state of mind to recognize the warning signs, was she?
[00:06:00] Speaker A: No, not at all. When you're grieving, your judgment can be clouded. Your normal defenses are down. David Miller somehow sensed her vulnerability and knew exactly how to exploit it.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: And I think this is something really important for our listeners to understand. These scammers are incredibly skilled at picking up on emotional vulnerability, even over the phone.
[00:06:25] Speaker A: Absolutely. What started as a simple attempt to order a cheesecake for her son would eventually lead Marsha down a path that would cost her tens of thousands of dollars. But we'll get into those details in a moment. Let me walk you through how this scam unfolded.
David Miller started by telling Marsha that someone had made an unauthorized charge of over $400 for a room purifier on her Amazon account.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: And this is a classic tactic, isn't it? Creating immediate panic about money.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: Yes, it is a classic scammer tactic. He then escalated the situation by claiming that this person purchase was just the tip of the iceberg. He told Marsha that her account was linked to multiple fraudulent activities and that her entire savings could be at risk.
[00:07:15] Speaker B: Wow. These scammers are masters at creating a false sense of urgency, aren't they?
[00:07:19] Speaker A: They absolutely are. David kept Marsha on the phone for hours, claiming he was working with Amazon's security team to protect her money. He told her that to safeguard her funds, she needed to withdraw $35,000 from her bank account immediately.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: That's an enormous amount of money. So, Nick, just how did he convince her to do that?
[00:07:41] Speaker A: He used a tactic most scammers use. He did it through a combination of fear and manipulation.
He stayed on the phone with her the entire time, even as she went to the bank.
When the teller expressed concerns about such a large withdrawal, David had already prepared Marsha with a cover story.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: So he was essentially coaching her to lie to the bank staff.
[00:08:05] Speaker A: Yes, and this is another red flag. He told her that if she revealed the real reason for the withdrawal, the criminals would be alerted and could steal her money before they could stop them.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: Nick, it is so frightening how these scammers can make such outlandish claims sound believable. It is really very frightening.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: They're experts at psychological manipulation. David maintained control by keeping Marsha isolated. He convinced her that he was monitoring her phone and that she couldn't talk to anyone about what was happening or risk losing everything.
[00:08:40] Speaker B: The level of psychological control is just devastating. And this wasn't even the end of it, was it?
[00:08:47] Speaker A: No, it wasn't. Once David had Marsha's trust and had successfully gotten her to withdraw the money, he moved on to the next phase of his scam. He instructed her to take the cash to a bitcoin atm, claiming this was the only way to secure her Money.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: They deliberately make these instructions complicated and confusing, don't they?
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. The more confused and overwhelmed the victim is, the less likely they are to think critically about what's happening. David kept creating new problems and solutions, keeping Marsha in a constant state of panic and anxiety. The financial impact of this scam was devastating. Once David had Marsha at the Bitcoin atm, things became even more complicated. Marsha had difficulty with the machine because her driver's license was expired.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: Oh, that poor thing. That must have been incredibly stressful for her, especially with David still on the phone pressuring her.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: It was.
When she couldn't complete the Bitcoin transaction, David quickly adapted his strategy. He arranged for a courier to collect the remaining cash directly from her.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: And she actually handed cash to a complete stranger?
[00:09:59] Speaker A: Yes, she did. At this point, she was so deep into the scam that her normal judgment was completely compromised. But David wasn't done yet. He then told her that an additional $37,000 had been lost through a gambling site.
[00:10:15] Speaker B: So, Nick, the amounts just kept escalating. How much did Marsha end up losing in total?
[00:10:19] Speaker A: By the end of this ordeal, Marsha had lost approximately $75,000. David had even convinced her to wire money to what he claimed was her grandson's business account.
[00:10:29] Speaker B: That's a life changing amount of money to lose. Did she have any savings left?
[00:10:34] Speaker A: Unfortunately, Marsha lost nearly all of her savings. The most heartbreaking part is that this money was meant to help support her family, especially after losing her daughter.
[00:10:44] Speaker B: And I imagine the bank couldn't help her recover any of it.
[00:10:47] Speaker A: That's right. Once money is transferred through Bitcoin or wired to these scammers accounts, it's virtually impossible to recover. These transactions are typically irreversible, which is exactly why scammers prefer these methods.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: What's particularly cruel is how they targeted someone who was already dealing with such a profound loss. These scammers are ruthless and really have no heart.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Exactly. And that's what makes these scams so effective. They don't just take people's money. They strike when people are at their most vulnerable, when their emotional defenses are down. Now, looking at Marsha's story, there were several clear warning signs that we need to highlight for our listeners.
The first and most obvious red flag was the sense of urgency that David created.
[00:11:38] Speaker B: Yes, that's a classic tactic, isn't it? Making people feel they have to act immediately or face dire consequences.
[00:11:45] Speaker A: Absolutely. Anytime someone claims you need to take immediate action involving money, that should be your first warning sign. Legitimate companies will Never pressure you to make instant financial decisions.
[00:11:57] Speaker B: And another major red flag was the request. Request to withdraw such a large amount of cash. Right?
[00:12:02] Speaker A: You're right. No legitimate company representative will ever ask you to withdraw cash from your account. They especially won't ask you to convert it to Bitcoin or hand it to a courier.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: I think it's important to point out that any request for secrecy is also a huge warning sign. David told Marsha not to tell anyone what was happening.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: That's a crucial point, Sue. Scammers isolate their victims because they know their stories won't hold up to outside scrutiny. If someone tells you not to discuss the situation with family, friends or bank staff, that's a major red flag. Another important thing I want to mention is the use of the courier. Many scammers use couriers to pick up their stolen funds. They need the couriers because the scammers usually reside overseas and unable to make the money pickups. Scammers recruit money mules through fake job offers, online romance scams, and social media ads, often tricking them into believing they are part of a legitimate business.
While some money mules are fully aware and complicit, many are unwitting participants who think they are helping a friend or processing payments for a company or assisting a romantic partner in need. So now let's also talk about the way David kept escalating the situation.
First it was a $400 charge. Then suddenly it became tens of thousands of dollars.
[00:13:34] Speaker B: This escalation is another common tactic among scammers, isn't it? They start with a relatively small problem that seems believable, then gradually increase the stakes once they have their victim's trust. Besides that, what about the method of payment? Bitcoin and wire transfers seem to be common demands in these scams.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: That's right. Any request to send money through cryptocurrency, wire transfers or gift cards should immediately raise suspicion. These payment methods are favored by scammers because they're virtually impossible to trace or reverse. Let's talk about how people can protect themselves from these customer service scale scams. Sue, what would you say is the single most important thing people should do?
[00:14:19] Speaker B: Without a doubt, it's verifying contact information.
Never trust phone numbers from Google searches. Always go directly to the company's official website by typing their web address yourself. One thing to look out for on Google are paid search results. If the number you are looking for is obtained by a Google Ad search result, you should question its legitimacy. Yes, many companies do use Google Ads to direct traffic to their sites and it is a fantastic form of advertising. However, if there is a paid result for a search for something like Google support phone number, this should raise a red flag. Google support numbers should be generated organically, not through a paid ad.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: Sue I must admit I have done this myself.
I recall one time I needed to book a hotel room at a destination. I was on the road and did a quick Google search. I called the first search engine result.
Well, it turned out to be a booking site that was not actually the lodging's direct number. I booked through them and ended up paying an unnecessary booking fee. I later determined that the search result I used was a paid ad by the booking company. If I had gone down to the organic search results, I would have found the direct number to the hotel I was looking for and avoided a booking fee.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: Exactly. So always make sure you're actually on the real website. For example, Amazon's real website is Amazon.com not amazonsupport.com or amazonservice.com or any variation of that.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: Another crucial strategy is to never feel pressured to make immediate decisions, especially about money. If someone says you need to act right now, that's the perfect time to step back and take a breath.
[00:16:19] Speaker B: And if you're ever unsure, hang up and call back using a verified number. A legitimate company won't have any problem with you doing this.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: I think it's also important to mention that real customer service representatives will never ask for remote access to your computer computer or ask you to download any software.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Absolutely right. And they'll never ask you to make payments through gift cards, wire transfers, or cryptocurrency. These payment methods are huge red flags. What about protecting our older loved ones? Nick, we know they're often targeted by these scams.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: The best thing we can do is have open conversations with them about these dangers. Set up a family protocol where they check with a trusted family member before making any large financial transactions.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: And remember that legitimate companies will never ask you to lie to your bank or keep transactions secret from your family.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: I know we may sometimes sound like a broken record here, but it is so important for everyone to use strong, unique passwords for all their online accounts and enable two factor authentication whenever possible.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: And if you receive any unsolicited call claiming to be from a company, don't give out any personal information. Instead, tell them you'll call back on the official number.
[00:17:51] Speaker A: That's right. And one final crucial point. Never ever send money to someone you haven't met in person, no matter how convincing their story might be or how urgent the situation seems. Now let's talk about what to do if you find yourself targeted by a scammer. Unfortunately, many people feel ashamed and don't know where to turn for help.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: That's right, Nick. The first and most important step is to stop all communication with the scammer immediately. Don't worry about being rude. Just hang up or stop responding.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: And if you've shared any financial information or made any transfers, contact your bank immediately. The sooner you alert them, the better chance you have of stopping or reversing transactions.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: You should also file reports with several key organizations. The Federal Trade Commission's website ftc.gov has an easy to use complaint system and your local police department should be notified as well.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: Don't Forget about the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint center at ic3.gov they track these scams and use the information to help catch criminals.
[00:18:59] Speaker B: If the scam involved Amazon or another major company, report it directly to their fraud department too. These companies want to know when their name is being used in scams for emotional support.
[00:19:12] Speaker A: There are victim advocacy groups that can help. The AARP Fraud Watch Network has a toll free helpline that connects victims with trained volunteers who can offer guidance and support.
There is also the Identity Theft Rule Resource center and the cyber crime support network csn.
All of these organizations stand ready to help victims of all types of scams and frauds.
[00:19:41] Speaker B: And remember, you're not alone in this. Millions of people fall victim to scams every year. There's no shame in reaching out for help.
[00:19:49] Speaker A: Great point, Sue. Or people can take it one step further, just like you and I have done.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: What is that, Nick?
[00:19:56] Speaker A: Don't you remember? We put credit freezes with all the three major credit bureaus.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: That's right. It was so easy I forgot we did that. So explain to our listeners what a credit freeze is.
[00:20:06] Speaker A: I am so glad you asked sue, because I had the explanation ready to go.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: Okay, okay. Enough showing off. Just explain what a credit freeze is so we can all go home.
[00:20:15] Speaker A: A credit freeze restricts access to your credit report, making it difficult for identity theft thieves to open new accounts in your name. When a freeze is in place, creditors cannot view your credit history, which is typically required to approve new credit applications. You can temporarily lift the freeze if you need to apply for credit. This measure helps protect against unauthorized credit activity, but does not affect your credit score or existing accounts.
[00:20:44] Speaker B: And trust me, I am about as tech challenged as they come. I easily placed a freeze with all three agencies using their apps. Super simple to do.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: And if you've shared passwords or account information, change them immediately. This includes any accounts that might share similar login credentials.
[00:21:03] Speaker B: Some victims find it helpful to join support groups where they can connect with others who've had similar experiences. It can be very healing to share your story and learn from others.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: The main thing to remember is that recovery is possible.
The sooner you take action and reach out for help, the better your chances of minimizing the damage and moving forward.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: So, Nick, as we wrap up today's episode, let's reflect on Marsha's powerful story and what we've learned about customer service scams. It all started with something as simple as searching for a phone number to order a cheesecake.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: That's what makes these scams so dangerous, Sue. They prey on everyday situations and exploit our trust in technology and familiar companies.
[00:21:49] Speaker B: Absolutely. One last thing before we close Be very, very careful about what you post to social media. Much of the information and personal background scammers get on their victims is gleaned from social media.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: That's a fantastic point. Limit your postings of personal information and pictures to social media. I know it is fun to do, but you could very well be handing the scammers all the information they need. Scammers regularly use social media to gather personal details like your full name, location, job, family members, and even your daily routines. They scan posts for travel plans, relationship status, recent purchases and and financial struggles, using this information to craft highly targeted scams. By piecing together what you share online, they can impersonate friends, fake emergencies, or trick you into believing a lie that feels personal and real.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: So true. Nick, thank you for joining us for this episode of behind the Scams. Remember, staying safe isn't about paranoia. It's about being aware and informed. Until next time, stay safe, stay alert, and stay scam free. Bye for now.
