[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign the Scams, where we pull back the curtain on the latest fraud schemes targeting innocent victims. I'm your host, Nick, joined as always by my better half and co host Sue. And let me tell you, we've got quite the story today.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: You're not kidding, Nick. This one's actually making my blood boil. It's about a massive grandparent scatter scam operation that was uncovered by federal authorities. And I've gotta say, it's pretty disturbing stuff.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: You're absolutely right, Sue. And you know, having spent 25 years as a federal law enforcement special agent investigating financial crimes, these cases always hit close to home. I came across similar type crimes during the course of my career. And I must say, when it comes to criminals exploiting the most vulnerable, which is our senior population, it really, it really disgusts me.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: I can only imagine, Nick. So during your career, did you come across cases with similarities?
[00:01:15] Speaker A: Well, sue, the grandparent scam is more of a modern day type scam, but I've encountered countless variations of scams attempting to steal money from seniors. But this particular case we're discussing today is one of the most sophisticated and widespread I've seen in a while. It's.
It's really something else.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: Well, I know our listeners will benefit from your expertise on this one. Should we tell them what we're dealing with here?
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Let's do it. In today's podcast episode, we'll be discussing an investigation with 16 defendants who were charged in April of 2024 in connection with a transnational scam that targeted hundreds of American seniors and stole millions of dollars from them. It's. It's pretty shocking stuff, Nick.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: This sounds very familiar to the large scam operation we discussed in episode six of our podcast. You remember that one, right? The one with over 80 defendants who led a large international scam operation out of Southern California?
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Oh yes, sue, that scamming operation was also huge. Luckily, federal law enforcement put that operation out of business. That was definitely a fascinating story with a happy ending. But we also did a similar podcast not too long ago about a grandparent scam takedown on the east coast. This case is not tied into that case. This is yet another scamming organization targeting seniors.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: That's right. However, since grandparent scams are such a dangerous and frequent scam, we're going to do as many as possible in an effort to get the word out. Plus, each of these cases have different backstories that are interesting to hear.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: That's right. And as I like to say, you can never be over educated when it comes to learning about scams, our College of Scammer Higher Learning is never closed here at Stamp Out Scams.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: So Nick, walk us through this case. What exactly did the Justice Department have to say about this investigation?
[00:03:28] Speaker A: Well, as I mentioned, this is a big one, Sue. In April of last year, the Justice Department announced charges against 16 individuals involved in what they're calling a sprawling grandparents scam.
Eleven of them are from the Dominican Republic and they're facing some serious charges. We're talking mail and wire fraud, conspiracy, money laundering, the works.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: Whoa, 16 people. That's quite an operation.
[00:03:55] Speaker A: It really was. And you know what's interesting about this case? Having worked similar investigations during my time as a special agent, I can tell you this is exactly the kind of organized structure we'd often see.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Really, Nick, is that just by coincidence or something that is common in the criminal world?
[00:04:14] Speaker A: Yes, it is. Something a lot of us forget is that just about any successful criminal organization has what we commonly call a business plan and an organizational structure. These operations aren't just a bunch of criminals running around randomly trying to make money. They are structured, strategic, and built for long term profitability, just like legitimate businesses.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: Interesting, Nick. Can you please expand on that for our listeners?
[00:04:46] Speaker A: Surely, sue, whenever we talk about scam operations, we're really looking at a well organized hierarchy with different roles. There are recruiters, the ones who bring in new people, whether they're scammers, money mules, or or tech specialists. Then you've got the social engineers, the smooth talkers who manipulate victims through romance, scams, phishing, or impersonation.
[00:05:12] Speaker B: I'm interested in your take on the money launderer's role in these operations. After all, tackling money laundering crimes was a big part of your job as a special agent during your law enforcement career, wasn't it Nick?
[00:05:25] Speaker A: It sure was, Sue. Lets just say that the money launderers in an organization are the financial experts who know how to clean dirty money and move it undetected.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Okay, so just how do they go about laundering the money?
[00:05:39] Speaker A: Money launderers often use a variety of tactics to disguise the origins of illicit funds. One common method is layering, where they conduct a series of complex financial transactions to obscure the money's source. They might also use shell companies to create a facade of legitimate business activity. Additionally, they may exploit international banking systems to transfer money across borders, making it harder to trace.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Sounds fascinating. We could probably devote several podcasts to money launderers and the tactics they use.
[00:06:18] Speaker A: We definitely could. I have many stories from my career that would make Fantastic topics.
[00:06:24] Speaker B: Sounds good. I'm taking down notes now to start working on those new podcast episodes.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: Okay with me, sue, but for now, let's go back to our story. Scamming operations also have cyber specialists. They're the tech savvy criminals who create fake websites, hack email accounts, and set up fraudulent wire transfers. And of course, at the top, you've got the bosses and financiers, the kingpins who orchestrate everything and take the most significant cut of the profits.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: Sounds like it's all so sophisticated.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: Well, sue, it's really no different from how narcotics trafficking works. Drug cartels have a supply chain, logistics and money laundering networks. They have enforcers who maintain order and people dedicated to bribery, making sure law enforcement stays off their backs in a scam operation. Instead of dealing in drugs, they're dealing in stolen identities, financial fraud, and emotional manipulation. Just like in the corporate world, these criminal enterprises are constantly evolving. They monitor what's working, adjust their tactics, and reinvest their profits into better technology, training and recruitment. Some even have incentives for their scammers, bonuses for the biggest payouts, just like a commission based sales team. The scariest part is that some of these scam syndicates have operating budgets that rival mid sized companies. They invest in call centers, fake legal departments and offshore banking structures to give their fraud and and appearance of legitimacy. That's what makes them so hard to take down. Because they think and act like a business. And that's what makes them so dangerous.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: So in today's case, you've got 11 main players in the Dominican Republic running the call centers, and then five more here in the states acting as money couriers.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: Yes, very sophisticated. This wasn't just a couple of people making random calls.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: Not at all. This was sophisticated. These guys were operating dedicated call centers in the Dominican Republic targeting elderly Americans across multiple states. New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania and Massachusetts.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: Yep, and based on my experience investigating these types of transnational cases, establishing and maintaining these operations requires significant organization and resources.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: How much money are we talking about here, Nick?
[00:09:04] Speaker A: Millions of dollars, Sue. And you know what's particularly disturbing? In my years working in financial crimes, I've seen how these operations can drain victims entire life savings. The Justice Department hasn't released the exact figure yet, but we're talking about hundreds of victims across multiple states.
[00:09:24] Speaker B: That's just heartbreaking. But I have to ask. How did they manage to convince so many people to hand over their money?
[00:09:32] Speaker A: That's where it gets really interesting. And honestly, pretty sophisticated. They use technology to make it appear like the calls were coming from inside the United States. This kind of technical sophistication is becoming increasingly common in these schemes.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: So who exactly were all these people involved in the scam? It sounds like they had different roles.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: They did. These operations always have a clear hierarchy and specialized roles. In this case, it started with what they called openers.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Openers? What did they do?
[00:10:06] Speaker A: These people made the initial calls to elderly victims. They'd pretend to be grandchildren or other close relatives in distress. And you know what? Having interviewed many victims in similar cases, I can tell you that these scammers are compelling actors.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: How do they make it sound so real?
[00:10:23] Speaker A: They play on emotion and urgency. But here's where it gets more complex. Once the opener had the victim hooked, they'd pass them to what they called closers.
[00:10:34] Speaker B: Like in sales, like at car dealerships or at timeshare presentations?
[00:10:40] Speaker A: Exactly like that. The closers were the heavy hitters. Guys like Rodriguez Guzman, Fortuna Solano and Reynoso Ventura. They'd pose as lawyers, police officers or court officials to seal the deal. We often see this two step approach. It's more convincing when multiple people are involved.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: And then there were dispatchers too, right?
[00:11:04] Speaker A: Yes. That's where people like Rodriguez, Serrano and Vasquez came in. They managed the network of couriers here in the States.
Think of them as the middle managers. They coordinated between the call centers in the Dominican Republic and the people actually collecting the cash here.
[00:11:23] Speaker B: That's quite an operation. Who was running the whole thing?
[00:11:26] Speaker A: According to the indictment, the masterminds were Juan Rafael para Arias Nephi Vladimir Para Arias and Gonzalez Acevedo. They operated the network of call centers. And I'll tell you, sue, from my experience, taking down the leadership of these operations is crucial because they're the ones with the expertise to set up these sophisticated networks.
[00:11:51] Speaker B: What about the people actually picking up the money?
[00:11:54] Speaker A: Those were the couriers, the five people charged here in the States. They'd go right to victims homes, use fake names, even give out phony receipts to make it all look legitimate. Then they'd funnel that money back to the Dominican Republic through various channels.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: It's like a twisted corporate structure.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: That's exactly what it is. These criminal enterprises mirror legitimate businesses. They have management, workers, quality control, the whole nine yards. It's what makes them so effective and unfortunately, so destructive.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: Nick, walk us through exactly how these scanners scammers operated. What were their tactics?
[00:12:35] Speaker A: You know, sue, it's funny. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, we used to see a lot of similar operations. We called Them telemarketing operations. It was rooms full of workers with desktop phones and a phone book making call after call.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: That doesn't sound so sophisticated.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: It really wasn't at all. But this was before the widespread usage of the Internet and definitely before everyone had a cell phone.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Yikes. That was a while ago. Nick, did you ride a horse during your law enforcement career? Because I'm not sure how far back we are going when we talk about your years in law enforcement, ladies and gentlemen.
[00:13:14] Speaker A: Her name is sue and she is here all week. But seriously, sue, technology has greatly changed the game. It has made it much easier for these scammers.
[00:13:24] Speaker B: Did you ever work any of those so called telemarketing cases?
[00:13:29] Speaker A: I think every one of us had to work one or two of those back in the day. I often worked undercover during my law enforcement career and worked as a UC in a few similar type cases.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Really, Nick? That sounds fascinating but scary.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: You're right, sue, it was a little of both. But I will give my props to the federal government. They really have a rigorous process for doing undercover work.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: What do you mean? They just don't give you an oversized raincoat and a nose with sunglasses disguise.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: I wish it had been as easy as that. No, their undercover program is very regimented with specific requirements.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: Nick, can you tell us briefly what this involved?
[00:14:13] Speaker A: Sure, sue, but I won't stray too far from our story. To do undercover work, you first had to have a minimum of five years on as a special agent. If you met that requirement, then you had to have a mix of investigations under your belt, including narcotics, money laundering and other similar type of crimes.
[00:14:34] Speaker B: Okay, Nick, after that, is that when you get your undercover disguise kit?
[00:14:40] Speaker A: No, sue, that's just the start of the process. From there, you have to apply to the undercover program. If you pass that interview, you are selected to the program. From that, you have to attend a three week undercover training class in Washington.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: D.C.
wow, Nick, that is quite a process.
[00:14:59] Speaker A: Yes, it is. The training class is very exhausting and demanding. During the class, you must do numerous mock undercover operations with trained, experienced undercover agents. Lets say these instructors are ruthless. But you leave this class ready to do real world undercover work.
[00:15:19] Speaker B: So Nick, did you do an undercover operation on a group like this?
[00:15:22] Speaker A: I sure did. I went inside a functioning telemarketing war room with people making calls. And I can tell you from firsthand experience that these people have it down to a science.
[00:15:34] Speaker B: Nick, I have a question. Back then, were these telemarketers conducting grandparent scams like the ones today?
[00:15:43] Speaker A: Great. Question, Sue? No, because these grandparent scams are a modern day scam. But these war rooms specifically targeted seniors, so the objectives were the same.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: So where did the grandparents scam come from?
[00:16:00] Speaker A: The exact origins of the grandparents scam are not well documented, but it gained prominence in the late 2000s. Over time, scammers have refined their tactics, utilizing personal information from social media and other online sources to make their impersonations more convincing. They often claim to be in situations like accidents, arrests, or medical emergencies, and spoof caller IDs to appear as trusted contacts.
[00:16:33] Speaker B: So these grandparent scams weren't a thing when you were involved in undercover operations or working cases in the late 90s and early 2000s?
[00:16:43] Speaker A: No, they were not a thing back then. But while the specific beginnings of the grandparents scam are unclear, it has become a widespread issue with numerous cases reported across various countries since the late 2000s.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: Nick, that is so, so interesting. Sounds like another whole new podcast. But tell us what these guys did to steal money from innocent and unsuspecting seniors.
[00:17:13] Speaker A: Sue? The first step was always the panic call. The opener would call usually late at night or early morning when people aren't thinking clearly.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: And they'd pretend to be the grandchild, right?
[00:17:25] Speaker A: And they were smart about it. They'd say something like, grandma is, it's me, I'm in trouble. Then wait for the grandparent to say a name. Jimmy, is that you? And boom. Now they know who to pretend to be.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: That's so manipulative.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: It is. And here's an important point. Scammers use technology to make the calls look like they were coming from local numbers, even though they were calling from the Dominican Republic. It's called spoofing.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: How would they convince people to actually hand over money?
[00:17:59] Speaker A: They used what we call pressure points. First, they'd create urgency. I need bail money right now. Then they'd add emotional manipulation.
Please don't tell mom and dad. They'll be so disappointed in me.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: That's horrible.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: It gets worse. The closer would then get on the phone playing the role of a lawyer or police officer. And I can tell you from my experience, they did their homework. They'd use legal terminology, quote specific statutes, even mention real local judges names.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: How did they know all that?
[00:18:35] Speaker A: Public records, social media, simple Google searches.
These days it's not hard to sound legitimate if you do a little research. In fact, during my time as a federal agent, we saw these scammers getting more sophisticated every year.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: What about the actual money pickup? How did that work?
[00:18:56] Speaker A: They had that down to a Science, too. The courier would show up looking professional, sometimes even wearing a fake courier company uniform. They'd have official looking paperwork, receipts, everything. They even had magnetic signs on their cars with fake company logos.
[00:19:13] Speaker B: Did they only ask for cash?
[00:19:16] Speaker A: Usually cash. But sometimes they'd ask victims to buy gift cards or make wire transfers. Often, you see, these scammers use multiple payment methods to avoid detection. They'd never ask for too much at once. They'd start with a smaller amount, then come back for more once they had the victim hooked.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: Like testing the waters.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Exactly. They often keep notes on their victims. If someone paid once, they'd call back a few months later with a different story. Maybe this time it's a car accident or legal fees for a dui. They'd milk the same victim multiple times.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: These scammers really thought of everything they did.
[00:19:57] Speaker A: And you know what's particularly devious? They tell victims not to use their cell phones because they're being monitored by the court. That way, victims couldn't easily fact check or call their actual grandchildren while the scam was happening.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Nick, we've talked about how these scams work, but what about the victims having investigated similar cases, what kind of impact did you see on the people who were targeted?
[00:20:26] Speaker A: These type of crimes have a devastating impact on the victims. We're talking about seniors losing their life savings. In this case, millions of dollars across hundreds of victims in New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts.
[00:20:43] Speaker B: That's heartbreaking. How do people end up giving away such large amounts?
[00:20:48] Speaker A: These scammers are masters at emotional manipulation. I can tell you that they specifically target the elderly because they know grandparents have this incredible, overwhelming instinct to protect their grandchildren. When they think their grandchild is in danger, rational thinking goes out the window.
[00:21:09] Speaker B: And I imagine once they realize they've been scammed, that must be devastating.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: Devastating. And it's not just the financial loss, though, that's bad enough. The psychological impact is enormous. Many victims experience depression, anxiety, and intense shame. I've seen cases where victims didn't tell anyone what happened for months because they felt so embarrassed.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: Even their own families?
[00:21:36] Speaker A: Especially their families.
I remember one victim from when I was working as a special agent. She was so ashamed she'd been fooled by a telemarketer. She couldn't bring herself to tell her children. She ended up taking out a second mortgage on her house to cover the losses. These scammers don't just steal money. They steal people's dignity and their sense of security.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: That's horrible. And I imagine it affects their ability to trust people. Afterward.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: Exactly. Victims become suspicious of every phone call, every knock at the door. Some become socially isolated because they're afraid of being scammed again. And you know what's really tragic? Some victims actually defend the scammers at first, because admitting they've been deceived is just too painful.
[00:22:27] Speaker B: Is there any way for victims to recover their money?
[00:22:31] Speaker A: Unfortunately, in most cases, once the money's gone, it's gone. These scammers move the cash quickly, often overseas, where it's harder to trace. That's why cases like this recent one in the Dominican Republic are so important. They show that law enforcement can sometimes catch these criminals, even when they're operating internationally.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: So how did law enforcement actually manage to crack this case? It seems like such a complex operation.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: You know, what really stands out about this case is the incredible coordination between multiple agencies. It's a lot like the level of law enforcement cooperation in that large scale scammer operation out of Southern California that we discussed in a previous podcast.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: It does seem similar, doesn't it?
[00:23:23] Speaker A: Absolutely. In this investigation, we had Homeland Security investigations, the FBI, Social Security Administration's Office of Inspector General, and even the NYPD working together. From my experience as a federal agent, these international cases are incredibly challenging to investigate.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: What makes them so challenging?
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Well, think about it. You've got criminals operating from call centers in the Dominican Republic, targeting victims across multiple states and using couriers. Here in the US When I work cases like this, jurisdiction was always a major hurdle. You're dealing with different countries, different legal systems, multiple state jurisdictions. It's. It's a lot to coordinate.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: That does sound incredibly complex. How do they even start investigating something like this?
[00:24:16] Speaker A: Based on my experience, it usually starts with pattern recognition. You get multiple victims reporting similar stories to different agencies. In this case, they probably noticed a pattern of elderly victims all reporting similar scenarios about grandchildren in accidents. Which is a fantastic example of why people need to report any and all scams, not just the ones that were successful, but even the attempted ones.
[00:24:43] Speaker B: Good point, Nick, because a lot of people feel that even if they report a scam or a crime, nothing gets done with it. But you're saying from your experience in law enforcement, something does get done with it. Right. Also, it helps get other law enforcement agencies attention because it may put the crime in their jurisdiction. So this must be why they bring in the different agencies in large scale operations like this grandparent scam.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Each agency brings different tools to the table. When I was working on similar cases, U.S. customs, now called Homeland Security, handled international aspects. The FBI coordinated Interstate operations and local law enforcement helped with surveillance and arrests of u. S. Based couriers.
Having been on both a DEA drug task force and an FBI high tech task force in silicon valley, I can tell you that the task force approach is one of the best approaches to combating large scale organized crime rings. Every agency brings something to the table. It's a fantastic approach to law enforcement and leads to many large scale takedowns like this.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: You're right, Nick. This is a fantastic approach to law enforcement. It sounds like it is usually pretty successful. Now, you mentioned surveillance. How do they actually catch these guys?
[00:26:13] Speaker A: One of the smart things they did in this case was focus on the money flow. As a former financial crimes investigator, I can tell you that following the money is crucial in these investigations. They tracked the couriers who were picking up cash from victims, which eventually led them back to the organizers in the Dominican Republic.
[00:26:37] Speaker B: But how do they build a case that will actually stick in court?
[00:26:41] Speaker A: That's where it gets really interesting. They need to document everything meticulously. They're looking at phone records, money transfers, victim statements, and surveillance footage. Then there's the international cooperation aspect. The justice department's office of international affairs played a crucial role in this case.
[00:27:04] Speaker B: Given your background, what impresses you most about how they handled this investigation?
[00:27:10] Speaker A: The coordination definitely impresses me. But what really stands out is, is how they managed to identify and charge all 16 defendants, including both the Dominican Republic based operators and the U. S. Based couriers. That's not easy to do. In my years as a federal agent, these transnational cases were some of the most complicated to put together.
[00:27:35] Speaker B: And now they're facing some serious charges, right?
[00:27:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. We're talking about maximum penalties of 20 years per count, plus substantial fines. The money laundering charges alone carry potential fines of up to $500,000 per count. From my experience investigating financial crimes, these are serious federal charges that show just how seriously law enforcement is taking elder fraud.
[00:28:05] Speaker B: But what can people actually do to protect themselves and their loved ones from these kinds of scams? I mean, they sound so convincing.
[00:28:14] Speaker A: You know, after 25 years in law enforcement, I can tell you the best defense is awareness and having a family plan. The first red flag is always urgency. These scammers create panic to override rational thinking.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: Like when they claim there's been an accident and they need bail money right away.
[00:28:33] Speaker A: Exactly. And here's what I always tell families. Like establish a code word. Something simple that only family members know. If someone calls claiming to be a grandchild in trouble, ask for that code word.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: Now we recently did a podcast on a similar operation, but not as big as this one. In that podcast, we discussed these things as well.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: Yes, we did. But these grandparents scams seem to keep getting bigger and bigger and more widespread. So obviously the scammers have hit on something they see as lucrative. They won't be letting up until they've exploited as many seniors as they can. Until then, we will continue to deliver the warnings through podcasts, YouTube videos and blog posts. Regarding the podcast you just mentioned, it does have a lot of helpful tips in it relative to the grandparent scam. For those of you who haven't listened to this episode, it is episode number six and named. Two men face federal charges in grandparent scams. Hear the news. It was a smaller scale grandparent scam operation across multiple states, but these scammers were able to steal lots of money from seniors and destroyed a lot of lives.
[00:29:52] Speaker B: That's right. Our goal is to stop the scammers. If we have to put ourselves on repeat to do it, we will do that. So what other advice do you have?
[00:30:04] Speaker A: Well, sue, as you know, many scams today involve the use of phone calls, especially scams like this one we just discussed the grandparent scam. Other scams use the phone to deceive as well. For example, there is a huge scam going on right now that involves tricking people into believing they are speaking with a bank's fraud department.
[00:30:26] Speaker B: Oh yes, Nick, I have definitely heard of that one. Tell our listeners about it, please. This is very important.
[00:30:32] Speaker A: You're right, sue, it is important.
So this scam starts with a text message that looks like it's from your bank's fraud department saying there's suspicious activity on your account and asking you to click a link to verify a transaction. Even if you don't click, you get a follow up call from someone claiming to be with your bank's fraud team, warning you that your account is at risk. They sound professional and may even know some of your personal details, convincing you that they're legitimate. As they guide you through securing your money, they trick you into giving them the information they need to access your account and drain your funds. By the time you realize it's a scam, your money is already gone.
[00:31:18] Speaker B: This is crazy, Nick. In an instant, people's money is drained from their account. Is there any recourse for people against the banks to get their money back?
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Fantastic question, sue, because this is where it gets really complicated. Banks are refusing to reimburse victims because the transfers are considered authorized, meaning the victim technically approved the transaction even though they were tricked. Unlike unauthorized fraud, where a scammer directly hacks an account, these scams rely on social engineering where the victim is manipulated into willingly providing access.
Since the bank sees it as a legitimate transaction, they argue it's not their responsibility to refund the stolen money.
[00:32:03] Speaker B: Wow, Nick, that is really scary. Sounds like we need to do a whole podcast on that issue.
[00:32:09] Speaker A: Yes, we do. But my point for bringing it up was that people need to remember that their phones are just a tool for the scammers. Whether it is the grandparent scam, romance scam, or the bank fraud scam, the phone is essential for the scammers. So I'm going to make it easy for listeners. Keep this catchy slogan in your head at all times. One click ends the trick. Just hang up. Or to make it even simpler, how about just hang up? Very similar to the catchy slogan from the 1980s encouraging people to stop doing drugs. It was three words. Just say no.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: I think that is great advice, Nick. And people should not fear hanging up. Then go about verifying the information. Time is on your side. Call your grandson or your bank directly. Now. What if someone's already fallen victim to one of these grandparents scams?
[00:33:07] Speaker A: There's actually a fantastic resource that not enough people know about. The National Elder fraud hotline. It's 1833, fraud 11. They've got professionals who can help guide victims through the next steps.
[00:33:21] Speaker B: What kind of help do they provide?
[00:33:23] Speaker A: They'll connect you with the right reporting agencies, provide resources, and even offer support in multiple languages. They're open Monday through Friday, 10am to 6pm Eastern Time. I can't stress enough how important it is to report these crimes quickly. It increases the chances of recovering losses.
[00:33:45] Speaker B: Are there other resources people should know about?
[00:33:48] Speaker A: Yes. The Justice Department's Elder Justice Initiative has great information on their website. And something I always recommend is setting up account alerts with your bank. Any unusual withdrawal should trigger an immediate notification.
[00:34:03] Speaker B: What about those phone calls that look like they're coming from inside the United States States?
[00:34:09] Speaker A: That's a great point. These scammers use technology to spoof phone numbers. Never trust caller ID alone. If someone calls claiming to be law enforcement or a court official, hang up and call the agency's official number yourself. You know, sue, when I was in law enforcement, I often got calls from people saying they were detective so and so from Anytown pd. Instead of starting to talk with them, I would tell them, okay, great, I am on another call. Give me your number and I will call you right back. Sometimes they gave me a number, other times they just hung up. Most likely the hang ups were from people trying to get information from me on a case, but not really in law enforcement. You know, like private investigators trying to be creative or criminal targets themselves.
[00:35:02] Speaker B: This all seems like such common sense when we talk about it, but I.
[00:35:06] Speaker A: Guess in the moment that's exactly it. These scammers are professionals at emotional manipulation. They create a crisis situation where normal thought processes go out the window. That's why having a plan in advance is so crucial.
[00:35:23] Speaker B: Well, I think we need to wrap this up. But what are the absolute key takeaways you want our listeners to remember about these grandparents scams?
[00:35:34] Speaker A: The most important thing is that legitimate law enforcement will never demand immediate payment or ask you to send cash with a courier. If anyone does this, it's a scam. Period.
[00:35:45] Speaker B: And what about that hotline number again?
[00:35:47] Speaker A: Yes, write this down everyone. 1833 Fraud 11. And remember, report these scams as quickly as possible. Time really is critical in these cases.
[00:35:59] Speaker B: I'm still thinking about that code word idea. Such a simple but effective solution.
[00:36:05] Speaker A: It really is. And please share this information with your elderly relatives and friends. In my years as a federal agent, I've seen how devastating these scams can be. Prevention is always better than trying to recover losses after the fact.
[00:36:23] Speaker B: And if you're listening and you think you might have been targeted, don't be embarrassed.
[00:36:27] Speaker A: Report it. You can report fraud directly to the FTC or call that hotline we mentioned. The professionals there understand exactly what you're going through and can help guide you through the process.
[00:36:42] Speaker B: Also, listeners can visit our
[email protected] where we have a wealth of scam scam prevention information, scam news and our new AI scam prevention chatbot named Sam. He is fed scam data on a 24,7 basis and has a wealth of information. Just ask Sam. Lastly, thanks everyone for joining us for another episode of behind the Scams. We'll be back soon with more insights into the world of fraud and how to protect yourself.
[00:37:15] Speaker A: Until then, please stay vigilant and remember, if something doesn't feel right, trust your gut and verify independently before sending money. Bye for now.
[00:37:27] Speaker B: This is sue saying, as always, please stay safe, stay alert and stay scam free.
