[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome back to behind the Scams. As always, I'm here with my lovely co host, who just happens to be my wife, Sue.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: And I'm here to make sure Nick doesn't scam you into thinking he's the funny one.
[00:00:15] Speaker A: That's right, folks. I'm just here for the dad jokes and moral support.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Yeah, and I will have our producer add laugh tracks to all your dad jokes. I promise that you'll come out looking like the funny one.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Ouch. Well, let's dive into today's episode before I get scammed out of my dignity.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Well, folks, I know that I'm ready to dive deep into yet another scam. So, Nick, what's on the agenda today for our listeners?
[00:00:38] Speaker A: Well, sue, today's case hits close to home. In some ways, it's not just about the scam itself, but about the person who got caught up in it. It's a story that really highlights how anyone can fall prey to these schemes, even someone who seems, well, ordinary. For me, it's a reminder of why we do what we do here at Stamp Out Scams.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Oh, that's interesting. I always assume scammers only target, you know, vulnerable people. Tell me more about this case.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: All right, we're looking at the case of a woman named Glenda. Now, Glenda was just an average person living in Missouri. She got caught up in a complex scheme involving money laundering and identity theft.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Wow. Identity theft and money laundering. That sounds serious. Nick, how did she get involved in all that?
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Well, it all started in 2014 when Glenda started an online relationship with a man who claimed to be a US Citizen with business interests in Nigeria.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: A Nigerian businessman. That sounds a bit fishy already.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: You're right to be suspicious, Sue. It turns out this guy was anything but legitimate. As with many romance scams, he started asking Glenda for financial assistance, claiming he needed help with his business ventures and was being prevented from leaving Nigeria until he paid various fees and some taxes.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Oh, no. A classic romance scam. Poor Glenda.
[00:02:05] Speaker A: Exactly. And remember, this was back in 2014 when these kinds of scams weren't as widely known as they are today. Glenda, unfortunately, fell for it hook, line and sinker. She started sending him money from her own retirement benefits and pension.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: She sent him her own money, but she had never even met this guy in person.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: That's right. She had never met this man. But his lies and manipulation completely took her in. And when her funds ran out, he started having electronics mailed to her, which she would then pawn and send him the Cash.
[00:02:43] Speaker B: Wow. She was going all out for this guy.
[00:02:46] Speaker A: She was. And it just kept escalating.
He eventually got her involved in receiving wire transfers from people she didn't even know, holding a small percentage for herself and sending the rest to Nigeria.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: So she became a money mule. That's one way to carry the weight of financial responsibility. Hope she didn't get stuck in traffic on the way to the bank.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: Exactly. And she was warned about it, too.
Moneygram representatives contacted her and told her she was involved in a fraudulent scheme. You'd think getting a call like that would be a wake up call. But maybe she thought it was just another telemarketer trying to sell her extended car warranties.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: Or maybe she thought it was part of the scam's customer service. Press 1 to continue being scammed. Press 2 to speak to a scam manager.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: Yeah, if only scams came with a customer satisfaction survey, Right?
On a scale of 1 to 10, how likely are you to recommend this scam to a friend?
[00:03:50] Speaker B: But all joking aside, she was warned and she kept going. If so, there is no excuse for that. Love is blind and all that, but this is beyond blind.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: She was warned. This online romance blinded her so much that she ignored all the red flags. She even continued after her bank accounts were closed due to suspicious activity.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: This is unbelievable. It's like she was entirely under this guy's spell.
[00:04:18] Speaker A: Well, it just gets worse. He eventually convinced her to open business accounts, which he used to deposit funds from various scams and including romance, business email compromise, and unemployment insurance fraud.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: So not only was she being scammed herself, but she was also helping him scam other people?
[00:04:37] Speaker A: Sadly, yes. Even after being warned by the Secret Service and the FBI, she continued participating in the scheme, which to me is shocking.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: One thing I wanted to ask you about, Nick, is how you were involved in this sort of work. You know, money laundering, financial crimes, all that interesting stuff people love to hear about, you know.
[00:04:59] Speaker A: With my 25 years in law enforcement, mainly investigating financial crimes, I've developed a keen eye for these sorts of scams. In fact, I spent three years as the National Money Laundering Coordinator in Washington, D.C. so I've seen firsthand how these operations work. It's why I'm so passionate about educating people about these type of scams.
[00:05:23] Speaker B: Nick, just what is a Suspicious Activity Report? I am curious because I have heard this term before in other cases and wonder just what they were.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: A Suspicious Activity Report, or sar, as they are commonly referred to, is a document that financial institutions must file with the Financial Crimes enforcement network or FinCEN when they detect potentially suspicious or unusual activity that might indicate money laundering, fraud, or other financial crimes.
[00:05:57] Speaker B: That's interesting. Explain to our listeners why banks are required to file these suspicious activity reports.
[00:06:05] Speaker A: Banks are required to file these reports to help law enforcement agencies identify and investigate illegal activities. By reporting suspicious transactions, banks play a crucial role in preventing financial crimes and protecting the financial system's integrity. Well, as agents, we continually reviewed these documents because the suspicious activities indicated in the reports are information that law enforcement needs to follow up on.
Glenda's suspicious activities at banks and wire remitters might be how she came to the attention of law enforcement, but I am not sure.
So they might have initially gone there to question her about just what the hell she was up to.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: So do you think that is what happened to poor old Glenda?
[00:06:55] Speaker A: It might have been. Either way, she was put on notice and should have been smart enough to stop it immediately.
[00:07:02] Speaker B: Well, Nick, I know I would be scared stiff if two guys in cheap suits knocked on our door and flashed badges.
[00:07:08] Speaker A: Most people would be. It didn't seem to faze Glenda.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: This story is both heartbreaking and questionable. How could she be so naive and unaware?
[00:07:16] Speaker A: Well, that's the thing about scams, Sue. They prey on our emotions, our vulnerabilities. In Glenda's case, it was this desire for love and connection that clouded her judgment. She wanted to believe this guy was who he said he was, and she was willing to overlook all the warning signs. And let's not forget, scammers are experts at what they do. They know exactly what to say and how to say it to gain your trust and exploit your weaknesses.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: It's a good reminder that anyone can be fooled, isn't it?
[00:07:48] Speaker A: It is. It's important to remember that shame and embarrassment often prevent victims from coming forward.
Glenda's case is a perfect example. She was likely embarrassed and ashamed of being deceived, which may have made it harder for her to break free from the scam.
[00:08:07] Speaker B: That makes sense. It's like a vicious cycle.
[00:08:09] Speaker A: Exactly. And that's why it's so important to talk about these cases, to raise awareness and let people know they're not alone. If you think you've been scammed, don't hesitate to ask for help. There are resources available to support you.
[00:08:26] Speaker B: So what happened to Glenda?
[00:08:28] Speaker A: Well, a sad story continues to get even more depressing.
[00:08:30] Speaker B: What do you mean?
[00:08:31] Speaker A: Less than six months after MoneyGram's warning, Glenda's new Romeo persuaded her to open a bank account, claiming that he needed her help with his business endeavors. As a result, she agreed to open the account. And In August of 2015, she deposited a counterfeit check in the amount of almost $46,000 into her bank account, which, by the way, the scammer had sent to her.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: Wow, that's a classic. Was she able to withdraw the money from the counterfeit check?
[00:09:04] Speaker A: Well, sue, fortunately, she could not withdraw funds from the account. In fact, her account was closed after the bank representatives advised her that she was involved in fraudulent activity.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: So, Nick, this is so crazy. What happened next in this love story gone wrong?
[00:09:21] Speaker A: Well, Glenda eventually opened multiple personal bank accounts at different financial institutions.
[00:09:26] Speaker B: Okay, Nick, why would she do this?
[00:09:29] Speaker A: Well, Glenda later admitted that she was hoping to help her Romeo and protect their relationship. This protection went as far as identifying the scammer by false names when she was interviewed by bank representatives and local law enforcement officials.
[00:09:46] Speaker B: So let me get this right. Despite the repeated advice and warnings of bank representatives and law enforcement agents, as well as the impact to her credit history, Glenda deliberately ignored the warnings and continued to believe the false information provided by the scammer.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: That's exactly right. But it doesn't end there.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: What? There's more?
[00:10:07] Speaker A: Oh, yes. The scammer convinced her to register herself as the sole owner of a property investment business with the Missouri Secretary of state, obtain an employer identification number from the irs, and then, following his instructions, use this registration and number to open business accounts at various banks.
[00:10:29] Speaker B: Wow, that sounds like a conspiracy to commit money laundering.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: Right on the money. No pun intended.
But that's exactly what she did. She gave the scammer bank account information, which allowed him to electronically deposit funds from various fraud schemes into these accounts.
These financial transactions involved proceeds from an unlawful activity, which is basically money laundering in action. Bottom line, it was classic money laundering.
[00:11:00] Speaker B: So it seems like she was committing crimes for the scammer.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: That's exactly what she was doing. And she had been warned by the government not to do this.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Seriously?
[00:11:09] Speaker A: Yes. Even after being warned several times. So this went way past a government knock and talk.
It might have started with that, but it went way beyond that and put the government's patience to a test.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: Wow. It would put anyone's patience to a test. Especially a bunch of guys and gals with badges and guns.
[00:11:30] Speaker A: Exactly. Her activity continued even after being warned by secret service and FBI agents to stop her fraudulent activities. Glenda later admitted that when agents returned to her home on February 23, 2021, she had three letters containing unemployment benefits debit cards, one from KeyBank on behalf of the state of Indiana and two from bank of america on behalf of the state of Arizona. All cards were in different names other than hers. Glenda also admitted that she followed the scammer's instructions and texted him pictures of the front and back of the card sent to her.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: Nick, you know what part that's taken stands out to me?
[00:12:12] Speaker A: Yes, I am very interested because this whole story stands out to me. But what part stands out to you? Sue?
[00:12:18] Speaker B: She wasn't just told once. Officials from patriot bank, the St. Louis County Police department and even the U. S. Secret service and FBI told her, hey, you're being used in a scam. And what did she do? She just kept going.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: Exactly. Back in May 2020, her so called lover had set up three deposits into her bank account, all tied to fraud. Law enforcement even explained to her that these were stolen unemployment benefits from the state of Washington totaling more than $15,000.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. And according to what I read in the court documents relative to this case, she was ready to send over $13,000 of that money straight to Nigeria through fedex. She claimed it was to help secure the release of a US Citizen. But let's be real, that's a classic scam excuse.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: And it didn't stop there. She also received a Covid stimulus check worth 7,456 that was meant for someone else and had it deposited into her account. She wasn't pocketing most of this money, but was a key player in moving it around.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: When investigators looked deeper, they found out that between 2014 and 2021, the fraud operation she was tangled up in had stolen from $550,000 to $1.5 million from many innocent victims.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: Right, and one of the most heartbreaking parts, A single check for $100,000 was cashed from a romance scam victim's retirement fund. That's a lifetime of savings wiped out.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: Yeah, and Glenda didn't just turn a blind eye. She actively ignored warnings from banks, credit unions, and even law enforcement agencies like the FBI and secret service. It's not like she didn't know. She chose not to know.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: I agree with you 100%. And because of that, multiple banks took hits. Including academy bank, bank of America, and even a car dealership, J. Kendall autos.
This wasn't just one or two victims. This was a full blown scamming operation. Many people and businesses were victimized.
[00:14:46] Speaker B: So what do you think, Nick? Was Glenda a victim herself or was she just too deep into this relationship to admit the truth?
[00:14:53] Speaker A: That's the big question. There's a fine line between being manipulated and willfully ignoring the red flags. And Glenda, she had a whole parade of red flags being thrown her away and still didn't stop.
[00:15:07] Speaker B: Yep, and that's what makes romance scams so dangerous. You're not just losing money, you're losing logic, reasoning, and sometimes your entire future.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: But in my humble opinion, Glenda went far past being a victim and into being a co conspirator.
Of course, I may be jaded by my years in law enforcement, but even without that, I still think she is much, much more than a victim. In fact, I think we can remove the word victim from this story altogether.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: I have to agree with you, Nick.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: I am sure many of our listeners would agree.
So it is not a real shock that based on her own actions in the matter, Brenda was charged by the federal government.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: No surprise there. Nick, can you outline the charges? And what happened to her? Is she locked up somewhere in some club Fed for seniors?
[00:15:59] Speaker A: No, she's not running a knitting club in some Sun City lockdown simply because she decided to enter a plea agreement with the federal government. Which is no surprise to me. She would have been foolish to take her case to trial. She would have indeed received a life sentence based on her age.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: So, Nick, what did she plea to and what was the sentence?
[00:16:20] Speaker A: She pled to two violations of identity theft. The maximum penalty for each violation is 15 years imprisonment, a fine of $250,000, or both.
[00:16:33] Speaker B: Wow, Nick, she was facing serious time.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: Yes, she was. But the government based their plea decision on some very important factors. Number one was her age. Number two, a lack of criminal history for Glenda. And three, she fully cooperated with the government.
However, this cooperation occurred very late in the game.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: You mean she finally came clean, Nick?
[00:16:59] Speaker A: Yes, she did. Many criminals seem to see the light when they finally see the darkness that confronts them if they don't.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: Well put, Nick. Before we move on to the sentence she received, do we know if the scammers were ever caught or identified?
[00:17:13] Speaker A: Well, that is certainly the million dollar question. There have been no public reports confirming that the scammers were caught.
Unfortunately, in many romance scam cases like this, the fraudsters operate from overseas, often in West Africa, Eastern Europe or other jurisdictions where enforcement is very difficult. As indicated earlier, the scammer had bank accounts in Nigeria, so it said. Safe to assume he was from Nigeria.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: That sucks. I guess It's a harsh reality of these romance scams. So what sentence did Glenda receive for her crimes?
[00:17:49] Speaker A: Although sentencing guidelines for the felonies, she pleaded guilty to recommended four years in prison. Glenda was sentenced on February 24, 2022, to five years of supervised probation. She was also ordered to repay her victims in community service.
[00:18:07] Speaker B: Boy, she went from an online romance to being a convicted felon.
[00:18:11] Speaker A: Well, that's what happens when you commit felonies in the name of love. A fine example of looking for love in all the wrong places. Anyways, this case is a tragic reminder of the devastating consequences of scams. Not only can they cause financial ruin, but they can also lead to criminal charges and imprisonment. This is not the only case where this has happened. There is more. We hope to cover these cases in later podcasts.
[00:18:44] Speaker B: So what's the takeaway here, Nick?
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Before we get into that, one of the things the government required G to do was make a public service announcement video for the FBI, which she did.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: A public service announcement. Now that's a good idea. I like the government's creativity.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: So do I. Let's listen to the audio from the FBI's public service announcement.
[00:19:05] Speaker B: Okay. And this will be her actually talking, Nick. It's not an actor or stand in, right?
[00:19:11] Speaker A: Yes, it's actually her talking. And it's less than two minutes, so it's not too long. Let's take a listen.
[00:19:20] Speaker C: My name is Glenda and I'm 81 years old.
In 2014, I met the love of my life online and he told me that he was a US Citizen and was working in Nigeria. He asked me for money to help with his business and help leave Nigeria.
Then my love had people send me electronics like cell phones so I could pawn them and send him the money. When I couldn't get the money that he wanted, he asked me to open personal and business bank accounts.
Since 2015, bank employees, local police officers, and federal agents told me that my love was a scam and that I needed to stop or I could go to jail. I didn't listen to anyone else but my love. The love I've never seen nor spoken to. Now I don't have a choice of whom I'll listen to.
On November 2, 2021, I pled guilty to two federal felonies.
I'll be listening to the judge now.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: To me, she almost sounds contrite. But I think two federal convictions and a court order to comply help her tone and attitude quite a lot.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: Sure sounds like it. Anyway, Nick, what are the biggest takeaways from this case?
[00:21:14] Speaker A: I think the biggest takeaway is that anyone can be vulnerable to scams. It doesn't matter how smart or educated you are, Scammers are experts at manipulation and deception. They know how to exploit our emotions and vulnerabilities, and they're constantly coming up with new and sophisticated ways to trick people.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: The level of manipulation in this case is. Is absolutely astounding. It should make everyone fearful of any and all scammers.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: You're right. Sue here is an elderly woman with no prior criminal history and by most standards, an upstanding citizen. At least before this.
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Yes, it is incredible what these scammers can get people to do. So what can we do to protect ourselves?
[00:22:00] Speaker A: First and foremost, be skeptical. Don't take anything at face value.
If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Do your research, ask questions, and never be afraid to say no.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: And what about online relationships?
[00:22:17] Speaker A: Be extremely cautious when interacting with people online, especially if you've never met them in person. Don't share personal information too quickly. Never send money to someone you don't know and trust.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Good advice. And if you think you've been scammed, what then, Nick?
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Report it to the authorities immediately. The Federal Trade Commission, ftc, and the FBI both have websites where you can file a complaint and, of course, report it to your local police department.
Now, this advice applies to any country you may live in. So if you're in another country, report to your local police, then report it to whatever national agency in your country handles fraud reports.
Just about every country has one or more agencies that handle this.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Okay, so be skeptical, be cautious, and report any suspicious activity.
[00:23:11] Speaker A: Exactly. And remember, knowledge is power. The more you know about how scams work, the better equipped you'll be to protect yourself and your loved ones.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: This case really highlights how easily someone can get caught up in a scam, doesn't it? I mean, Glenda seems like a regular person, not someone you'd expect to be involved in something like this.
[00:23:34] Speaker A: Absolutely. And that's why it's so important to be vigilant and aware of the different types of scams out there. Scammers are constantly evolving their tactics, so we need to stay informed to protect ourselves.
[00:23:47] Speaker B: It's also a reminder that scams can have devastating consequences, not just financially, but also emotionally and even legally.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Yes, Glenda's case is a prime example of how a scam can spiral out of control, leading to significant financial losses, damage to one's reputation, and even criminal charges.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: It's sad to think about everything she lost, both financially and personally.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: It is. And it's a reminder that we need to be careful about who we trust. Both Online and offline.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: So besides being skeptical and cautious, what other steps can people take to protect themselves?
[00:24:30] Speaker A: One important step is to educate yourself about common scams and how they work. The FTC website is a great resource for this. They have information on a wide range of scams, from romance scams to identity theft to imposter scams.
[00:24:45] Speaker B: That's a good point. The more you know about how scammers operate, the better equipped you'll be to spot the red flags.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Exactly. And don't be afraid to ask questions. If something seems off, trust your gut and ask for clarification. A legitimate business or organization will be happy to answer your questions and address your concerns.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: And what about protecting your personal information?
[00:25:10] Speaker A: That's crucial. Be careful about what information you share online and who you share it with. Avoid clicking on links or downloading attachments from unknown senders. And always be sure you're on a secure website before entering sensitive information.
[00:25:28] Speaker B: And what about password?
[00:25:30] Speaker A: Use strong, unique passwords for all your online accounts and change them regularly. Consider using a password manager to help you keep track of them.
[00:25:40] Speaker B: Those are all great tips, Nick. I think it's also important to remember that scammers often target people who are going through a difficult time, such as a financial hardship or a personal loss.
[00:25:54] Speaker A: That's a good point, Sue. Scammers are experts at exploiting vulnerabilities, so it's important to be extra cautious during times of stress or emotional distress. They might sense desperation or loneliness, and they'll use that to their advantage.
[00:26:11] Speaker B: And if you do fall victim to a scam, don't be afraid to reach out for help. There are resources available to support you both financially and emotionally.
[00:26:20] Speaker A: Absolutely. The ftc, your local police department, and various consumer protection agencies can aid and guide to help you recover from a scam.
[00:26:31] Speaker B: Speaking of law enforcement, Nick, I know you have a lot of experience in this area. What are some of the things that stand out to you about Glenda's case from a law enforcement perspective?
[00:26:41] Speaker A: Well, sue, one thing that jumps out at me is the sheer number of red flags that Glenda.
From the beginning, there were warning signs that this online relationship was not what it seemed. The fact that she never met this man in person, that he was asking for money, that he had her involved in receiving wire transfers from strangers, these were all major red flags that should have raised alarm bells.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: And yet she continued to trust him.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: Exactly. And that's something we see time and time again. In these cases. Victims often become emotionally invested in the scam and are willing to overlook even the most obvious warning signs. In Glenda's case, you can see a clear progression.
[00:27:29] Speaker B: Talk about that clear progression, Nick. I think it's important to cover.
[00:27:33] Speaker A: Well, the scammer started with small requests, seemingly innocent, like needing help with business expenses. Then he escalated to needing help with fees and taxes to be able to leave Nigeria. By the time she was pawning electronics and wiring money to unknown individuals, she was in too deep.
[00:27:52] Speaker B: So, Nick, each step of the way, the scammer tested her boundaries, seeing how far he could push her.
[00:27:59] Speaker A: Yes, he was. This is a very common tactic among scammers.
[00:28:02] Speaker B: It's like they're blinded by the scam and the. The potential for everlasting love.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: Precisely. And that's why it's so important for law enforcement to be proactive in educating the public about scams and how to avoid them. We need to help people recognize the red flags and empower them to take steps to protect themselves. We need to teach them how to question, how to verify, and how to say no.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: I imagine it must be from frustrating for law enforcement officers to see people fall victim to these scams, especially when there are clear warning signs.
[00:28:38] Speaker A: It is frustrating, Sue. But it's also important to remember that actual victims of scams are not to blame. Scammers are master manipulators who prey on people's emotions and vulnerabilities.
Our job as law enforcement officers is to hold the scammers account accountable and help victims recover from these crimes. And that's not always easy. These scammers often operate from overseas, making it difficult for them to track down and prosecute.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: And what about Glenda's case? Precisely what are some of the lessons that law enforcement can take away from this?
[00:29:16] Speaker A: Glenda's case highlights the importance of early intervention. If law enforcement had been able to intervene early, earlier in the scam, it's possible that Glenda could have been spared from the devastating consequences she ultimately faced if someone had intervened when her bank accounts were first flagged or when Moneygram issued their warning. The trajectory of this case might have been different.
But there is no denying she was given plenty of chances.
[00:29:47] Speaker B: So what can be done to improve early innovation intervention efforts?
[00:29:50] Speaker A: One key is to encourage people to report suspicious activity. Often, victims of scams are reluctant to come forward because they're embarrassed or ashamed.
We need to create a culture where people feel comfortable reporting scams without fear of judgment. We must emphasize that it's not their fault, and that coming forward can help prevent others from falling victim to the same scheme.
[00:30:14] Speaker B: That makes sense.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: You Know, sue, through our nonprofit and throughout my career, I have spoken with many, many victims. I have seen some prevalent traits among the victims I have dealt with. For starters, a lot of folks who get scammed are feeling lonely or emotionally vulnerable. Scammers tap into that need for connection, especially in romance scams.
[00:30:38] Speaker B: That's interesting, Nick. What else have you seen seen in the victims you have come in contact with?
[00:30:44] Speaker A: Well, then there's the trust factor. Some people naturally defer to authority. So when someone calls claiming to be from your bank or even the government, you might not question it as much as you would normally. This has happened to me. I know that when I get the call, my mind may focus on the caller and the content of the caller's discussion. I lose focus on whether this caller was legitimate or not.
My mind begins to drift. It's a very common human reaction.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: That's interesting, Nick. That very same thing happens to me.
[00:31:19] Speaker A: I'm not surprised, Sue. Another thing I've noticed is that either a lack of digital know how or even overconfidence can be a problem.
People might think I'm too savvy to fall for this, and that can lead them to overlook red flags.
[00:31:36] Speaker B: And if you're under pressure, maybe stressed out or rushed, you're more likely to make snap decisions that turn out badly.
[00:31:44] Speaker A: Yes, you are. One more point. If you've been scammed once, chances are you're on a victim list and might get targeted again.
It is a known fact that scammers have a list of people who who have already been victimized.
They share this list with other scammers and scamming groups.
[00:32:05] Speaker B: These guys are so organized. To them, this victim list is like a company buying marketing reports.
[00:32:11] Speaker A: Excellent analogy, but you're essentially correct. Finally, folks facing financial difficulties or chasing quick wins are prime targets because scammers promise them an easy way out.
[00:32:23] Speaker B: What about the role of financial institutions in preventing scams?
[00:32:27] Speaker A: Financial institutions play a critical role in combating scams. They are often the first line of defense and can help identify and report suspicious activity. Law enforcement must work closely with financial institutions to share information and develop strategies for preventing scams. They should also keep a closer eye on their older adult customers and question them about suspicious transactions they might observe.
[00:32:57] Speaker B: You mentioned suspicious activity reports. The bank probably filed them on poor old Glenda.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: Banks were likely filing suspicious activity reports on Brenda's banking activities. However, suspicious activity reports being filed may not help. If the bank doesn't speak directly with the customer about their suspicious activities. It should all be part of the bank's KYC policies, which stands for know your customers. The best way to get to know your customers is to actually talk with them directly. I know this isn't always possible, especially with real busy banks.
[00:33:36] Speaker B: Nick, does law enforcement actually use the information in suspicious activity reports?
[00:33:41] Speaker A: Yes, they do. Suspicious activity reports are a fantastic tool for law enforcement. They are filed into a system and accessible by authorized law enforcement agencies. However, from the customer standpoint, if the situation allows talking directly to the customer and asking them how they are doing, what they're up to, is everything all right? Might encourage the customer to speak up.
[00:34:08] Speaker B: Could that possibly backfire on the bank?
[00:34:10] Speaker A: It could, and that is where the dilemma for banks arises.
It could spook the customer, make them fearful, etc. So each situation is different and should be handled on a case by case basis and at the bank's discretion. It's also important to remember that scammers constantly evolve their tactics so law enforcement must stay ahead of the curve. But I am sure I am not telling law enforcement anything they don't always already know.
Unfortunately, many law enforcement agencies suffer from a severe lack of funding and resources.
[00:34:50] Speaker B: So as consumers, we all need to be constantly learning and adapting to new trends and scams. That's why it's so important for law enforcement agencies to also invest in training and resources to keep officers up to date on the latest scams and how to investigate them.
[00:35:12] Speaker A: This is all very challenging for consumers and for law enforcement, but it's also.
[00:35:17] Speaker B: Gratifying to know you're making a difference in people's lives. From our organization's perspective, when we can stop a scam or help a victim recover from one, it is all worthwhile. Now, going back to Glenda's case, you mentioned that she wasn't sentenced to prison. Do you think that was a fair outcome?
[00:35:37] Speaker A: That's a complex question, Sue. On the one hand, Glenda participated in illegal activities and caused harm to others. On the other hand, she was also a victim herself and the scammer clearly manipulated her. The justice system needs to consider all of these factors when determining an approach appropriate sentence.
[00:36:01] Speaker B: I imagine there's a lot of debate about addressing these types of cases where the perpetrator is also a victim.
[00:36:08] Speaker A: There is Some believe that perpetrators like Glenda should be held fully accountable for their actions regardless of the circumstances.
Others believe that the focus should be on rehabilitation and helping them to understand how they were manipulated and how to avoid falling victim to scams in the future.
[00:36:27] Speaker B: It's a tricky balance to strike.
[00:36:29] Speaker A: It is, and there's no Easy answer. But it's important to have these conversations and continue exploring ways to improve our response to scams, both from a law enforcement perspective and a societal perspective.
[00:36:45] Speaker B: You know, it's interesting because when I was reading court documents and online articles about Glenda's case, it mentioned that she was actually in her 80s when. When all of this happened to me. This is a very shocking aspect of the case.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: Yes, she was in her 80s. This just added another layer of complexity to the case.
[00:37:05] Speaker B: It does. One article I read talked about how Brenda was lonely and isolated, which might have made her more vulnerable to the scammer's advances.
[00:37:15] Speaker A: That makes sense. Loneliness and isolation can make people more susceptible to scams. Scammers often prey on people who are feeling vulnerable and looking for connection. Many, many victims I have dealt with through our organization have expressed these very feelings of loneliness and isolation.
[00:37:34] Speaker B: The article also mentioned that she had some cognitive decline which might have impaired her judgment.
[00:37:40] Speaker A: That's another important factor to consider.
Cognitive decline can make it difficult for people to recognize red flags and make sound decisions.
It's something that law enforcement and the courts need to be aware of when dealing with elderly victims of scams.
[00:37:57] Speaker B: It really makes you think about the challenges of aging and the importance of having a support system in place.
[00:38:03] Speaker A: It does. We need to do a better job of protecting our elderly population from scams. That means educating them about common scams, providing them with resources and support, and ensuring they have someone they can trust for advice.
[00:38:18] Speaker B: Well, this case has undoubtedly given us a lot to think about.
[00:38:22] Speaker A: It has. Hopefully it will encourage our listeners to be more vigilant and take steps to protect themselves and their loved ones from scams.
[00:38:30] Speaker B: One thing we can encourage our listeners to do is visit our
[email protected] it has tons of resources relative to this type of scam.
[00:38:41] Speaker A: It sure does. We have lots of helpful information from regular feeds of scam news, blog postings, podcast postings and our new AI powered chatbot.
[00:38:51] Speaker B: Briefly explain how the AI powered chatbot works.
[00:38:55] Speaker A: I thought you would never ask, Sue.
[00:38:57] Speaker B: Well, take it away, Nick.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: @Stampoutscams.Org we've developed an AI powered chatbot that acts like your personal scam research assistant. Available 24 7, it's powered by Chatbase, which means it's constantly learning from an extensive database of scam reports, fraud alerts and real time consumer warnings.
[00:39:20] Speaker B: In non geek talk. Explain how it works.
[00:39:22] Speaker A: I'll try, but you know I love geek speak, but I will definitely. Our AI powered chatbot is named Sam the Chatbot is at the bottom of each of the site's pages and in the right hand corner. Just look for the little smiling guy in a suit. Click on him and he will enlarge with a text message field. Just type in your question and click the send icon. SAM will quickly generate your answer.
[00:39:50] Speaker B: Okay, sounds simple enough.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: It's a lot like using Chat, GPT or Gemini by Google. It's straightforward. You type in a question, maybe you got a weird email, a suspicious phone call, or you're wondering if that investment opportunity is too good to be true. You can type in your question or copy any text from an email or message and put it in the SAM text field and click Send. SAM will instantly pull relevant scam data to give you an answer. It can identify red flags, provide background on known scams, and even guide you on what to do next.
[00:40:27] Speaker B: Nick, that is a fantastic tool, isn't it?
[00:40:29] Speaker A: It sure is. Think of it as a fraud investigator in your pocket, helping you make safer decisions without having to dig through a bunch of articles or government sites. Whether it's romance scams, crypto fraud, phishing emails, or any other con out there, our chatbot helps cut through the confusion and gives you reliable, up to date info, all in in plain English.
[00:40:55] Speaker B: Our goal is simple at Stamp out scams to make scam prevention as easy, fast and accessible as possible. You don't have to be an expert in fraud to protect yourself. Just ask our chatbot and it'll do the research for you.
[00:41:12] Speaker A: Bingo. It's a no brainer. Everyone should be using it, especially seniors. It's so easy to use.
[00:41:18] Speaker B: On that note, this is the end of this episode.
[00:41:20] Speaker A: It sure is. Thanks for joining us on behind the Scams. We hope you found this episode informative and helpful. This is Nick saying bye for now.
[00:41:30] Speaker B: And this is sue saying stay safe, stay alert and stay scam free. Thank you and bye for now.
